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II observe people wincing at flawed intonation (though I have also observed that many of those same people don’t wince at “slightly” flawed intonation, but whatever…), but I rarely observe people wincing at flawed rhythm.

I play in a couple of types of musical ensembles where perfect intonation is not particularly important, but I’ve never played in any musical ensembles where rhythm is not particularly important.

Some might recognize this percussion and bass rhythm as an introduction to a well-known Broadway musical number. A couple of nights ago, I was rehearsing it with a group where the claves player was playing the last two notes of this rhythm about a 16th note late - ie. unintentionally/unknowingly “placing” them.
Of all types of music, Latin styles are not those which tolerate inaccurate rhythm. I winced, because I had to play with the claves.
Exquisite intonation is luxurious, but exquisite rhythm is essential.

Music is rhythm.

Santana got the clave backwards - Tito Puente

The best director I had the pleasure of collaborating with was a fanatic about rhythm, precision of articulation, and consistency. He was also the one that has students playing professionally across the country.

Yes, rhythm and timing trump all other aspects of playing.

matt g wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 5:15 am The best director I had the pleasure of collaborating with was a fanatic about rhythm.

Ours is a drummer. The percussionists seethe. I appreciate it.

It's the weakest part of my sight reading.

The musical hierarchy that I learned is as follows: 1. Beat 2. Rhythm 3. Pitch 4.Phrasing 5. Articulation 6. Expression. Hierarchy, as is you must have 1 down pat before you start worrying about 2, 2 before 3, etc.

yes. pulse.

When the figure - in those two measures - was repeated over-and-over, the pulse was not slowing down, but it was being distorted within those four beats.
Since the last event and the first measure occurs so late, the claves player was giving the following rest (first 1/4 of the second measure) too much time…

…and - in my head - that “grated” considerably more than would a 15c-sharp trumpet or piccolo sound.

That having been said, I’ve spent far less time in my life sitting in “tuba sections” than working in 4 to 7 piece combos, where it was/is my solemn responsibility to sustain a pulse…
…”solemn”, because “not being hired back“ would’ve met “less money for my family”.

Even when an entire-and-acute “tuba section“ is ready-and-willing to keep a pulse – but no one else will cooperate/react, there’s a feeling of helplessness.

I have been playing with a banjo group as their only rhythm guy. My tuba is suppose keep them all together. Two of the weaker banjo players set on either side of me. I was once surprised to hear them playing two different rhythms from what I and the rest of the band was playing. It was a strange feeling.

CCC

Pitch and Time.

My college tuba teacher preached those words, and it stuck. I can instantly get a read on a player or a group by these two things. They are things that, as tuba players, define our base level of competency. You can't fake these.

Same teacher also used to preach these words: Bacon and Eggs. I never asked why, assumed it was a quirk. After several years I asked what he meant by that and he said "Commitment vs. Involvement. The chicken, he's involved - he gives you the eggs, but what you do with them it's no big deal to him life goes on. That pig though? He's committed. To give you that bacon is NOT a trivial matter for him. So, are you involved, or are you committed?" I really wasn't ready for college in retrospect, and got a LOT more out of the handful of lessons I took AFTER college than any of the ones I took in college.

As far as the chicken goes, I’m pretty sure SHE gives you the eggs!

DonO. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:25 am As far as the chicken goes, I’m pretty sure SHE gives you the eggs!

autocorrect. that's my story, sticking to it.

Something I ask students (and tell, I teach "Socratically") is that rhythm is more important than notes. I have them repeat back.

Rarely do I stop for a note out of tune or even a wrong note, I will mention it in passing, but when they play a wrong rhythm, they know I will stop them immediately. One of the problems I notice in music education (from a general perspective) is the focus on note accuracy. I guess when playing for administrators that don't know about music, it is a way to quantify the results. The better band programs (and the collegiate ones) prioritize rhythm, and not shocking, these bands play much better in tune and have greater note accuracy.

I say this a lot, but it's generally not a mystery what the music is supposed to sound like. There are just too many recordings out there now to have an excuse. Your job as a musician is to give a performance of that music that everyone knows what it's supposed to sound like.

But for most of us, we are amateurs, so we're gonna suck a little bit when we play.

Sucking because you make a mistake (cracked note, brain fart, etc) is one thing, but sucking because you don't know the music (like a completely wack 1-measure too early entrance) is way worse.

I doubt many community group players practice at home. But if you're not going to practice the instrument, at least listen to the music and learn it before the next week.

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:52 pm I doubt many community group players practice at home. But if you're not going to practice the instrument, at least listen to the music and learn it before the next week.

We get Youtube links sent.

I listen with headphones while examining the chart.

I might even move my fingers!!

I practice challenging passages.

My sight reading sucks. And always has. :(

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:52 pm I doubt many community group players practice at home. But if you're not going to practice the instrument, at least listen to the music and learn it before the next week.

There are times when I will walk in blind - purposefully - so I can specifically work on sight reading things. This is usually in the lower tier groups where I can expect the music to not be the most strenuous level possible.

If I know the group is competent I will usually make sure I've at least listened to the program. If that listen reveals some serious playing will be required, I will try and have it locked in before I go to the first session.

For example, I'm subbing with the Maryland Winds in April and on the program is the "Far and Away" suite by John Williams (arr. Lavender). It's a legit audition level excerpt. The "lick" isn't crazy hard but it's a big tutti section in the lower voices and it HAS to be precise or it will be a mess. That's getting some attention, for sure.

I have turned down requests to teach for several decades (other than listening to people play their audition material…and I won’t even do that unless it’s at least a month ahead of their audition), but - back when I was still doing some - I broke the habit of stopping students when they did something I didn’t like, because that can transfer easily to the student stopping when they do something that they themselves don’t like, and that isn’t good.
I had them start at a certain point, and asked them to play to a certain point and stop - so we could talk.

Importance from an employment standpoint:
Show up early/be ready for the downbeat
Don't talk too much, but be easy to work with and get along with
Wear the correct uniform
Draw your wages and exit without fanfare

Importance regarding the playing:
Play in tune and in time
Play in tune and in time
Play in tune and in time
Play what the music asks for. Serve the song and the group and stay in your lane. And do it in tune and in time.