hammered finish

[bloke]

Of all finishes I’ve seen on brass instruments - and I consider this to be much more than a finish - I find the hammered finish on the 1930s Olds “Military Model” to be absolutely the pinnacle of coolness.
I would actually love to have an instrument with this finish. Could you imagine this type of surface over a whole bunch of square feet on the outside of a tuba?
I guess, the main reason that I like it is that - again - it is more than a finish.
I thought about how they must’ve done it, and I believe they must’ve hammered the brass before they ever made it into a bell, because otherwise it would’ve ruined the bell (whether or not the bell was still on its steel mandrel). Also, notice that the hammer marks are not sharp, and - rather - they are burnished – surely due to having turned the bell after the brass was hammered.
As far as the very end of the flare of the bell exterior is concerned, I believe they sanded it smooth with the bell lathe spinning, and then added that engraving.
once again, the effect on the sound:
bloke “nope”

https://reverb.com/item/48638881-f-e-ol ... gamonbrass

[windshieldbug]

I thought it was just because the makers were “hammered”…

[bloke]

I thought it was just because the makers were “hammered”…

yeah… I can’t really say whether or not they voted for FDR, so (??)

[York-aholic]

@bloke

Here is Robb Stewart’s take on it:

https://www.robbstewart.com/martin-pocket-trumpet-2

[bloke]

That’s pretty interesting to reproduce the appearance. The one “Military Model” - that I have laid eyes on - featured a smooth interior, and the hammer marks looked to be somewhat worn down and then polished.
I suppose there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

[hubert]

Still/again done by Haagston Austria (www.haagston.at). Look on their website under "singingbell.hämmerung" or "Patenthämmerung".
Mostly done for smaller brass instruments. But I have seen it on a F-Tuba as well. Marvellous, only the look.....
Hubert

Impression of work in progress:
https://brassego.at/de/work/tuben/

[bloke]

The tuba looks cool. I realize this is all esoteric, as its just an opinion of how something looks (as is often the case with music: opinion about how something sounds), but I prefer seeing all of hammer marks all overlapping, whereas it’s difficult to tell where one starts and another ends - rather than separated marks, that appear as if dents.
Were I had to buy a brand new tuba and that were an option that only cost an extra thousand bucks – and they did it as good as Olds did in the 1930s – I’ll probably pony up the money.

[iiipopes]

I have always heard that called a "peen" finish, the most common being a "ball peen" hammer and finish, although there are other types as well.

[Yorkboy]

With your skill and talents, I’ll bet you could iron out all those dents in under an hour, for sure…….

Seriously, I’ve never heard of or seen this - not quite my cup of tea, but very interesting nonetheless.

[donn]

... but I prefer seeing all of hammer marks all overlapping, whereas it’s difficult to tell where one starts and another ends - rather than separated marks, that appear as if dents.

Right, I think that's how this finish is traditionally done on ash cans etc. A strip on the bell somewhere would be a better way to economize on hammering, than spreading the marks out.

How much does it matter whether the marks go into the interior, i.e. dents and not just marks? The esthetic is going to be a lot different applied to a tuba, versus a cornet, and for the classic ash can look I'd want to scale the dent size up a lot, maybe coin size. The depth wouldn't scale up as much, but it might be real hard to get a meaningful mark that size within the thickness of the brass, i.e. without making a dent.

Taking that a little farther, there's a less formal approach that's effectively more like a fully dented bell -

[bloke]

I like the look of that pot, and wouldn't mind it on a tuba - other than it might be mistaken for a repaired tuba, when it might come time to sell it.

[bort2.0]

Hrmm... ok, so for a normal hand-hammered tuba bell (the fancy "handmade" type, not the pressure-formed kind), aren't there some small hammer markings that are still visible? I seem to remember this particularly on my old Neptune and PT-6, that you could see and even feel the small dimples on the bottom bow. Haven't checked the Rudy just yet, but suspect there's something miniscule to see there as well.

All to say, is the hammered finish just an exaggeration of that usual process?

And much like the Austrian man in the link above, I often wondered why only Tympani had exteriors that were hammered to look like that. I wondered if it had something to do with the forming of the copper to the correct shape, as many other [often made in India] copper goods have similar final finishing in a hammered appearance.

Part of it is looks. Maybe all of it is looks. It's impossible to do an A/B test of these things, so you just have to try it, see how you like it, and then attribute that success (or failure) to *something*. And why not make that the most obvious of all things? :)

[York-aholic]

With your skill and talents, I’ll bet you could iron out all those dents in under an hour, for sure…….

Seriously, I’ve never heard of or seen this - not quite my cup of tea, but very interesting nonetheless.

Can you imagine? Guy takes in rare Olds Military model into Bloke for a few repairs.

Bloke calls and says, "Your horn is all done. I know it took longer than we discussed, but I got all those little dents out of it for you."

[UncleBeer]

Ya mean like this?

hammered bell.jpg (76.05 KiB) Viewed 1345 times

Actually, this next one is what happened when I tried to make a bell out of sheet brass about 30 years ago. Not quite ready for production.

my bell.jpg (116.52 KiB) Viewed 1345 times

[bloke]

I would rate that bell as a superb effort, sir...and probably more than some factories could manage - without their special tools.

truth (though I'm not sure that I should reveal it)...

Someone sold me a regular (180ML - #37 bell) Bach trumpet - DECADES ago - which looked as though (and I believe this is ACTUALLY what happened to it - based on how it appeared) that someone sat down, watched a 2-hour movie, and CHEWED (yes: apparently CHEWED) on the bell flare throughout that movie. ...The entire flare was completely covered and overlapping-on-overlapping (well...) teeth marks...so complete that (again) it looked like some sort of nightmarish "finish". I only paid about $100 for the trumpet, got ready to order a new bell for it, but (just for fun) put the saxophone bell "shoe" on the ferree's dent machine, added some STP oil treatment, and got to work (well...after straightening the rim, which is always first). After not too long, I was really encouraged, and thought, "hmm...This is good enough to swap out on a school horn with a trashed bell"...but I kept working and kept cranking. After not much longer it, was remarkably smooth. I hit the interior and exterior with (no...not 200 nor 250, but only 600 grit) paper, buffed it, and it was - well... - flawless...and yes, I did a bit of rounding - over at the vice - with a roller...but it was (to my eyes, and I believe myself to be my own most severe critic) "perfect". I had the bell double-silver plated (to insure that I made up for the light sanding job), and stuck it back on the instrument. The rest of the instrument featured a REALLY fine machine (valves/slides) and a clean/NO-red-rot mouthpipe. I regular customer came in (music teacher, whose own child had been doing really well) and told me that they would like to reward them with a GOLD-plated Bach trumpet. I told them that I would have one ready in three weeks. I ordered one of the (at that time) Taylor Music surplus Bach Strad cases (with leather ends - as Bach had just changed to the zipper/cordura thing, and - obviously - "dumped" the old-style ones off with Taylor Music) for $35 (actually, I went ahead and bought a stack of them), sent the trumpet off for gold plating, and sold it to them. They (mother and gifted child) were happy as larks, and that instrument is still being used by them to this day. It's a BEAUTIFUL instrument and the bell is neither thin nor weak.

[LargeTuba]

I know a lot of school tubas with that exact same finish.

[donn]

I like the look of that pot, and wouldn't mind it on a tuba - other than it might be mistaken for a repaired tuba, when it might come time to sell it.

It's better than pre- worn-out blue jeans.

[York-aholic]

Ya mean like this?


hammered bell.jpg

No, no, that one is the new "crinkle" finish.

Only made at select middle and high schools.

[bloke]

I'm waiting for "size 38 x 33 blue jeans - that are hopelessly impregnated with jewelers rouge" to become en vogue.

[UncleBeer]

I would rate that bell as a superb effort, sir...and probably more than some factories could manage - without their special tools.

Thanks, Bloke. I was surprised that it wasn't harder to roll a rim by hand. Not perfect by any means, but making metal go from a larger radius to a smaller radius: not impossible.