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I’ve got the beginnings of an idea to add a b flat to the arsenal. I had a holton 345 frankenhorn 15 years ago. 340 body with meinl Weston valveset. Great, distinctive sound. Challenging to steer at times. Im thinking of another holton,but you can’t just order one up. Anyone who knows the holton played any of the newer Chinese b flat BATs? Wessex prokofiev and grand. Bmb 744(still made?) any others? Do any come close? Please share your experience. Primarily interested in comparison to a holton 345 b flat. Thanks!

Most of them – in my experience don’t offer that Holton noble roar, when a good player steps on the gas.

I'd suggest calling either or both of Norm Epley and Martin Wilk and see if either of them have a Holton, or could build something for you to your liking.

I am pretty sure I will have a Miraphone 1291 BBb for sale in a couple weeks. Just an FYI.

I can't tell you how any Holton or Martin plays, but I can tell you that for a large 4/4, my Jupiter JTU1110 with a standard Conn 120S Helleberg has a huge tone, is in tune with itself, and provides all the foundation and support any ensemble may need.

Lee Stofer has a couple big BBb horns in his in-process list. He's started listing what they would cost and when they could be ready. It includes a big Holton. Prices are very fair. If you want to go the frankenhorn route I'm sure he could accomodate you.

There's a 345 for sale or trade at the old place.
Tim

greenbean wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:54 pm I am pretty sure I will have a Miraphone 1291 BBb for sale in a couple weeks. Just an FYI.

I love these things, probably my favorite contrabass tuba (I like the 191 sound more but the piston horn is easier to play for me); lots of people might not consider them to be in this size class though.

Nothing matches the sound of a Holton.

Does BMB make anything anymore? The big BBb is a nice tuba. BTW, their Eb is badass.

The Prokofiev is a ton of fun to play, and I don't think it would disappoint. Not cheap, but very resonant and fun to play.

BUT...

There is something quite special about a good Holton. If you have the dough and patience to find one that's a good player in nice condition, it would be worth the wait and the price tag, IMHO.

I had the opportunity to play my Holton BB-345 (pre-Bloke-Repairs) side-by-side with a bunch of Wessex stuff at the showroom. I was very impressed with the Prokofiev but not the Grand. I would have been paying close attention to response and slotting. I also must not have disliked the sound nor have found glaring intonation issues.

Your particular Holton plays better in tune than those.

tubaing wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 5:59 pm I had the opportunity to play my Holton BB-345 (pre-Bloke-Repairs) side-by-side with a bunch of Wessex stuff at the showroom. I was very impressed with the Prokofiev but not the Grand. I would have been paying close attention to response and slotting. I also must not have disliked the sound nor have found glaring intonation issues.

MikeMason wrote:…Do any come close? Please share your experience. Primarily interested in comparison to a holton 345 b flat. Thanks!

Short answer is they all come close.

But close only counts in horseshoes.

I thought the Wessex I played was easier to play but didn’t have the same killer instinct. Others thought it as good as my Holton, but maybe they didn’t know my Holton quite well enough, or share the appreciation for the killer instinct. The BMB wasn’t bad but it didn’t make the smile appear. The Holton makes the smile appear.

But there are things it doesn’t do well, and punching out into a dead school auditorium is one of them. A tall kaiser rotary tuba does that better, but at the expense of breadth.

Joe’s Miraphone FatBastard does both and it also made the smile appear.

Holtons have a zip to the sound that few other BATs can match.

Rick “dormant with the band at post-plandemic reduced size, despite the current resonant venue” Denney

So, speculate for me, how much of the magic do you think is the original Holton bell?

MikeMason wrote:So, speculate for me, how much of the magic do you think is the original Holton bell?

Speculation—its everything downstream of the valves.

Rick “at least including the top and bottom bow plus the bell” Denney