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marches, polkas, and any other type of music where we are supplying functional bass lines consisting of short sounds:

Whether it’s the rare $150,000 a year tuba player or an eighth grader, we all play music like this.

Over the years, I’ve realized how important the underlayment of a piece of music is and how we can change completely how it feels, and how the rest of the musicians react to what we put under them - in terms of a bass line.

This post could easily become way too long and make too many specific claims about things which are general, so I’m going to limit it to a couple of things that I’ve decided are good to do. (others may disagree. )

- I think it’s a really good idea to go to the trouble to make the short notes in our so-called “oompah“ bass lines decay towards the ends of the notes, unless it’s a short passage which obviously calls for something else.

- I believe in duple meter, that decay should end just at the end of the first half of a beat, and in triple meter - like 6/8 time - that decay should end 2/3 of the way through a beat…the same lengths of time as notes are typically written on pages of music in these time signatures.

- I believe the decay is important, and the length is important.

- An extremely easy (natural) way to affect the decay is to close down the lip spacing on each note as the air diminishes.

If a player doesn’t go to the trouble to do this, natural reverberation in a room can also do it, but more and more venues are set up to not offer very much reverberation, because so much music is electronically produced, so we really can’t count on that, can we?

(Three different times, I played a couple of weeks runs with touring companies of the show, “Chicago“. Each time, I tried to think of things that would help me concentrate on playing, since the parts are somewhat rudimentary. The second of the three times was when I started really thinking about different types of sounds which are best for various situations and types of music – articulations and releases – that are utilized in tuba-produced bass lines. (Were I to mention the aspects of playing that I concentrated on the other two times, it would be even easier for this thread to go off topic, so I will refrain. )

The inconvenient truth (especially for the US/CC&F/orchestra-track college kids) is ^^^THIS^^^ is the meat and potatoes of what nearly all tuba players do (even those incredibly rare orchestra pros). Tuba players get paid to play bass lines and background/foundational stuff. You might get some occasional heroics or bombast, but that's a rare dessert, not the main course or sides. And in an orchestra, you'll count more rests than you will get dessert. Eat your broccoli!

I think your assessment is generally spot-on, save for certain highly-stylized music. Often, the needed length/articulation/etc. is aurally revealed by the music and the makeup of the ensemble. Different styles often demand particular things from the bass instrument, but if a player, as a rule of thumb, does what you describe, they'll be fine the vast majority of the time. If any tweaking is necessary, it won't be much. I also agree with your suggested method of decay being easy and natural.

A few types of polka "feels" (does that plural noun exist?) require nearly cutting off sounds with the tongue...and there are some other exceptions to the desire for a synthetic/player-affected decay.

Obviously, when (half notes, in a duple-meter march, or dotted quarters in a compound-meter march) full-beat notes feature a tie over them (typically with some sort of dynamic "swell"), those are exceptions...but those exceptions are clearly written in the parts.

An interesting topic this and one that just doesn’t seem to get much if any recognition.

I’m a Brass Band player so my experience might not fully overlap that of players in other groups. The Bass part in Brass Bands is split between the Eb and BBb Basses with the (more agile) Eb’s usually playing anything in the Bass part that might be tricky but otherwise there’s usually just an octave or chord between what pitch notes we play and the rhythm is the same. Anyway, our Band Master reminds us that what’s written in the music is just a start point from which to more expertly work and we’re having to understand that concept and labour from there.

As well as sustained bass chords a Tuba can be all about a guiding pulse and rhythm. A walking bass line is played to sound like a string bass playing so crotchets are played as dotted quavers with a slight diminuendo on each note, and the first note of the bar slightly more emphasised. Gaps are often left between notes, just to emphasise a rhythm or pulse to the music, short rests are implied rather than written (silence and clean articulation can be more important than sustained sound). Dynamics should vary too to bring out some bass ornamentation in a piece. Constantly it’s a case of understanding that what the band plays is built on top of what foundation of sound laid down by the Tubas and of asking what does - and what more could - the bass line add to this music.

Bass music might normally be simple but the delivery is important in a surprising variety of ways and, of course, if the Bass player plays a dud note then everyone hears it. You might not need your group’s best players on Tuba, but a wise Conductor will ensure that s/he has some able people in the Bass section - we are the foundation upon which all else rests.

2nd tenor wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:40 pm An interesting topic this and one that just doesn’t seem to get much if any recognition.

I’m a Brass Band player so my experience might not fully overlap that of players in other groups. The Bass part in Brass Bands is split between the Eb and BBb Basses with the (more agile) Eb’s usually playing anything in the Bass part that might be tricky but otherwise there’s usually just an octave or chord between what pitch notes we play and the rhythm is the same. Anyway, our Band Master reminds us that what’s written in the music is just a start point from which to more expertly work and we’re having to understand that concept and labour from there.

As well as sustained bass chords a Tuba can be all about a guiding pulse and rhythm. A walking bass line is played to sound like a string bass playing so crotchets are played as dotted quavers with a slight diminuendo on each note, and the first note of the bar slightly more emphasised. Gaps are often left between notes, just to emphasise a rhythm or pulse to the music, short rests are implied rather than written (silence and clean articulation can be more important than sustained sound). Dynamics should vary too to bring out some bass ornamentation in a piece. Constantly it’s a case of understanding that what the band plays is built on top of what foundation of sound laid down by the Tubas and of asking what does - and what more could - the bass line add to this music.

As just mentioned, there's such a thing as sustained notes. There might even be a range of musical effects involving length and shape of notes, though you'd have to ask someone else for the details.

Doc wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:30 am The inconvenient truth (especially for the US/CC&F/orchestra-track college kids) is ^^^THIS^^^ is the meat and potatoes of what nearly all tuba players do (even those incredibly rare orchestra pros). Tuba players get paid to play bass lines and background/foundational stuff. You might get some occasional heroics or bombast, but that's a rare dessert, not the main course or sides. And in an orchestra, you'll count more rests than you will get dessert. Eat your broccoli!

I think your assessment is generally spot-on, save for certain highly-stylized music. Often, the needed length/articulation/etc. is aurally revealed by the music and the makeup of the ensemble. Different styles often demand particular things from the bass instrument, but if a player, as a rule of thumb, does what you describe, they'll be fine the vast majority of the time. If any tweaking is necessary, it won't be much. I also agree with your suggested method of decay being easy and natural.

I think tubists should take lessons from those who are "collaborative pianists", you know, those who accompany us on recitals. Often than not, they adjust to the styles and go along with what we do right away, and don't mention it. Then again, playing Fountains the loudest with a "galaxy class sound" is all that matters to many.

Fountains: I can’t…play looooow; I can’t…play looooow.

I had an opportunity to play Ravel’s La Valse about 35 years ago. I seem to recall that I was covering the string bass line at the time in our tiny orchestra, and that meant the downbeats were just me and one former professional bassist. I mimicked her approach: the notes were two thirds of the one beat per bar, with an end rolled off gradually enough that the listener could not be sure there really was a gap before the next downbeat. But the downbeats were crisp and distinct.

When I’m playing a jazz bass line in tuba, especially a walking bass or four in the bar, I don’t even really tongue the beats, but really just pulse the air without having actually stopped the air from the previous beat. Officially: legato but with a marked decay on each beat. Doing so lays the beat back into the groove, and sounds relaxed and cool even when driving the tempo hard.

Think about it: a low Bb is 58 Hz. At 120 beats a minute, a beat lasts half a second. If the note is sounded like a 32nd—as short as possible—the pitch is being established by only about three cycles of the fundamental pitch. That’s a pretty small sample to establish the pitch, and more of the pitch information will have to come from the upper harmonics. But if the note then decays for most of the beat after that beginning pulse, the sound gets more like 20 cycles. That allows the sound to reveal its full depth in the ear of the listener.

Rick “who can’t play low” Denney

By the time I thought about all that stuff, the tune would be over before I even made the first sound.

Play first, then think. Or the reverse.

Rick “but not at the same time” Denney

russiantuba wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:51 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:30 am The inconvenient truth (especially for the US/CC&F/orchestra-track college kids) is ^^^THIS^^^ is the meat and potatoes of what nearly all tuba players do (even those incredibly rare orchestra pros). Tuba players get paid to play bass lines and background/foundational stuff. You might get some occasional heroics or bombast, but that's a rare dessert, not the main course or sides. And in an orchestra, you'll count more rests than you will get dessert. Eat your broccoli!

I think your assessment is generally spot-on, save for certain highly-stylized music. Often, the needed length/articulation/etc. is aurally revealed by the music and the makeup of the ensemble. Different styles often demand particular things from the bass instrument, but if a player, as a rule of thumb, does what you describe, they'll be fine the vast majority of the time. If any tweaking is necessary, it won't be much. I also agree with your suggested method of decay being easy and natural.

I think tubists should take lessons from those who are "collaborative pianists", you know, those who accompany us on recitals. Often than not, they adjust to the styles and go along with what we do right away, and don't mention it. Then again, playing Fountains the loudest with a "galaxy class sound" is all that matters to many.

I guess that that’s Fountains of Rome, a piece I’d never heard of before because I’m not from the North American tradition of Tuba playing. Sometimes I wonder whether people focus on getting the young playing regardless of output quality, just keeping them engaged. Not that that’s a really bad thing for the early player - a necessary evil even - but maybe not so usefully musically for subsequent years.

Over the COVID lockdowns we were sometimes able to meet in small groups (up to six) for open air rehearsal playing, we used quintet arrangements (instruments varied but something like 2 Cornets, an Eb Horn, a Euphonium and a Bass were used to cover the five parts). I loved that playing and would gladly do more of it, we all could hear the other ‘instrumental voices’ and we could all hear how our own part fitted in with what others were doing. In our case there was a friendliness to those sessions too, much mutual support and a willingness to both learn from others and to pass information on. In large group playing there’s a tendency to muddle through and maybe we and our leaders have a different mix of objectives too, but in small group playing we were more able to be collaborative and we worked together as one to produce an entertaining and musical mix of voices rather than just sound; active listening, interpretation and collaboration matter …

As Bass players we sometimes love to play loud and deep without thinking much beyond that. Many years back a young friend - now a secondary school music teacher in some far away place - expertly played a piece of classical music on his BBb as a solo during a school concert, he got polite applause but no more than that whereas less skilled playing on higher pitched instruments was better received. Maybe I and the audience are completely wrong but surely the art of Tuba playing and music making recognises (or should recognise) what the different pitched voices are best or better for, values that insight and works accordingly … the right tool for the right job.

Delivering the bass line well is important, it’s what we’re there for and we’re the best voices for what the bass line does for the music. The seemingly more complex music usually played by the smaller instruments is a really helpful practice tool to develop some overlapping skills but, as I am discovering, there’s so much more to really good bass playing than that limited skill set. I’m very much looking to read about, understand and develop that other missing part of the Tuba player’s skill set, its existence is barely recognised and hence the specialist skills are typically missing. Sometimes it’s the small things, the subtleties, the slight changes in what we do, that make important differences and I think that so with delivering the best of Tuba playing.

Polkas tend to move along a pattern of emotions. Much of that is taking place in the music around you.
Try to join your colleagues in that pattern by adjusting "buoyancy" of your 2-step bassline notes (if that makes any sense: i'm talking about the Amplitude over the duration of the note as well as spacing between consecutive notes). Those Quarternotes can breathe humor, generosity, stubbornness and many others I lack english vocabulary for.

Besides the types of attacks, releases, and how much of our sound we decide to interject into the corporate sound, there's also WHEN we begin our sound.

It took me a while, but I finally realized -quite a while back, thankfully - that playing in the "fat" part of the beat = "dead" bass lines.

When listening to recordings (all types of music) where tuba players begin to play just barely AFTER others enter, the tuba might as well not be there, but - when the beginning of the tuba sound is "right there" with the [trumpet, snare drum, etc.] the tuba sound jumps out of the recording (or live performance.

Years ago - couple of years after I realized how important this was, there was a (of all things...??) July 4th concert where the OPENING number (nope, not patriotic, but) the (as it's called) "Suite" from the (movie) "The Magnificent Seven". The introduction is odd-meter-ish, and then it goes into common time, and the part with which everyone is familiar. At the rehearsal, I was very into my "don't let yourself hear the snare drum sound or trumpet sound before your make your sound" thing, and - at the break - the principal trumpet walked by and complimented me (specifically) on that piece..."way to 'drive the bus' ".

It does take more courage to play that way (play with others who play at the very beginning of the sound), but - well - it's better.

This tuba player in this recording - does a really good job of being "right on it" (about six-or-so bars into the intro...)

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:34 pm Besides the types of attacks, releases, and how much of our sound we decide to interject into the corporate sound, there's also WHEN we begin our sound.

It took me a while, but I finally realized -quite a while back, thankfully - that playing in the "fat" part of the beat = "dead" bass lines.

When listening to recordings (all types of music) where tuba players begin to play just barely AFTER others enter, the tuba might as well not be there, but - when the beginning of the tuba sound is "right there" with the [trumpet, snare drum, etc.] the tuba sound jumps out of the recording (or live performance.

Years ago - couple of years after I realized how important this was, there was a (of all things...??) July 4th concert where the OPENING number (nope, not patriotic, but) the (as it's called) "Suite" from the (movie) "The Magnificent Seven". The introduction is odd-meter-ish, and then it goes into common time, and the part with which everyone is familiar. At the rehearsal, I was very into my "don't let yourself hear the snare drum sound or trumpet sound before your make your sound" thing, and - at the break - the principal trumpet walked by and complimented me (specifically) on that piece..."way to 'drive the bus' ".

It does take more courage to play that way (play with others who play at the very beginning of the sound), but - well - it's better.

This tuba player in this recording - does a really good job of being "right on it" (about six-or-so bars into the intro...)

Playing on the front of the beat (if you want to call it that), is something I do unconsciously, but it is definitely how you "drive the bus" when the bus needs to be driven. I think you just respond to the music/style and intuitively give it what it needs. Your low, long-wave sounds need to be get out front in time to line up with everyone else's sound, and also for there to be a pulse to put some drive in the band. In those occasions where you really need to drive the bus, if you are on the beat or behind the beat, it's too late, and the music doesn't go anywhere. Your bus has a flat tire, and it sounds like $#!+.

If you're going to drive, drive with authority.