TubaForum.net

Hello all,

at present, I have the chance to test-drive both variants side-by-side.
Specimen a) newly acquired ADAMS "Solo" F-Tuba, currently with adjustable thumb-ring.
Specimen b) WILLSON 6400 RZ5 BBb-Tuba, self-made customized hand rest and valve lever, in operation since 2009.

I am a great fan of handrests, because -
- I believe being able to use the thumb´s base joint (closest to the wrist) will result in greater speed of the thumb´s tip than relying on movement of the last joint (closest to the thumb nail).
- In my case, the joint in between has hardly any range of motion, and I can´t even consciously move that joint in isolation.
- The thumb´s movement will be more forceful, more effective, with superior control and the least tiring if the thumb is allowed to move freely, using ALL its joints.
- movement of the whole hand in relation to the valves can be easily compensated, which will not be the case if the thumb rests against a ring at any position along its length. (Which connects this thread to another recent one, discussing players´ finger positions).
- In case of a thumb ring, the pinky tends to move further from the 4th valve during 5th-valve-operation, as the ring works as a pivot, AROUND which the thumb will move.

Many tubas will offer some sort of hand rest in form of a suitably positioned 3rd valve slide.
At least it´ll be easy to install a customized hand rest to such a near-by slide, which the ADAMS F does not offer.

So what do those of you do that have decided to put up with a thumb ring?
Am I missing something?

Pictures?

My Yamaha 621F has a thumb ring and a trigger, and I use my whole thumb to actuate the trigger, but not the joint back at the wrist.

I’m not picturing the hand-rest thing in my mind.

Rick “always preferred a thumb ring” Denney

The more balanced and light the touch (spring action just enough, and not too much, etc.) perhaps the less important appliances - such as these - become (??)
Several years ago, I pursued the lightest possible springs on my instruments – as long as return actions were still faster than my own fingers, and I found that I pressed against the instrument and against the thumb ring less than before.

Think about woodwind instruments, how many mechanisms require touching, with how many fingers, and the complete lack of hand braces or thumb rings, other than a right hand thumb rest to gently stabilize the instrument.

My 40-year-old F tuba’s rotor springs are somewhat mangled-looking, but their touch is perfect, so I’m a little bit afraid to replace them with nicer looking ones.

bloke “yet another of my annoying ‘yeah, but’ post responses”

I removed the thumb ring from the NStar (It just unscrewed.) Being a pianist, where you move your hands all the time and still somehow manage to hit the right keys, and also being a classical guitarist, where the right hand is also not anchored and manages to hit the right strings -- I find a thumb ring restrictive. Especially on guitar you will find people want to glue their pinky to the surface of the guitar (banjo too, I guess) -- and it is a bit disconcerting at the beginning to have it "floating in space" but ultimately freeing. I felt exactly the same way about the thumb ring.

I dunno what a hand rest is, but will say very likely I wouldn't want one of those either. Even with my oboe and Cor, I bought a thingy (new design, called the Hook) that attaches to the stand and that I rest the edge of the bell on, so that my right hand is not restricted by the thumb's need to hold the instrument up. It is so much easier to reach all those pinky keys (on both hands) without the thumb restrictions.

I'm about 50/50 on thumb rings. Depends on the horn. I don't particularly like them, but without them, sometimes your hand is just kind of floating there.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:47 am Think about woodwind instruments, how many mechanisms require touching, with how many fingers, and the complete lack of hand braces or thumb rings, other than a right hand thumb rest to gently stabilize the instrument.

It was the first thing I thought of, since I too am at a loss to picture an actual tuba hand rest.



I jettisoned the thumb ring on my 5V tuba.

yup...my point exactly.
A large percentage of bassoonists have those crutches stored in their sock drawers (not even in their cases).
Mrs. bloke doesn't even know where hers is.

I´d like to insert pics to illustrate my point, but for the time being text will have to be good enough.
Handrest: think about a well rounded surface to rest a convenient and not too large part of Your palm on, while all fingers are positioned to operate valves.
This should leave Your palm bones freedom to adapt their relative position to sculpt the form of your hand and adapt to varying playing situations.
The surface will allow sliding motions of the hand to allow different degrees of finger curvature during long hours of playing in order to lessen effects of fatigue.

On some horns, you can simply rest your hand against a third valve slide. The MW 46S, for example, offers that option. A thumb ring is there as well, but could be omitted.

On a piano, all fingers including the thumb will exert forces in the same single direction to operate keys.
So your brain will have to sum up the magnitude, but not calculate the angle of the resultant vector of force to support the player´s hands.
Sideways motion requires less force and may be easy to coordinate with practice.

That´s different with Your normal 5th valve lever on a tuba: the thumb will act in a plane different to the other fingers.
Simultaneous operation of several valves will affect both magnitude AND direction of the resulting forces on your forearm.
So without a steady fixation of any kind, your brain will have to calculate how to counteract that force in varying directions at all times.

A rest (thumb ring or hand rest) will offer a solid pivot point so your arm muscles won´t have to stabilize the hand in several planes, which will make it much easier to coordinate.

The Eastman 836 has a hand rest and a thumb ring(as does the Yama York it references). It works fine. My yam 621f has removable thumb ring,which I removed. To use it contorts my wrist, without frees up my hand to exist naturally. Miraphone 186 and their derivatives- remove thumb ring and anchor thumb under 2nd valve slide. My experiences.

along with where my fingers stay when i play, this is another element i've never paid attention to. i've watched myself the last couple days and it depends on what i'm playing, where my thumb goes. when i'm playing slow stuff, the thumb is IN or ON TOP of the ring... when there's a lot fast notes, the thumb comes out and kinda just folds under the palm. i don't have a hand rest, so i can't say for sure, but i'll bet i would do the same.

i've been trying to teach it to stay close to the 5th valve for i have found that i can use it on a few notes as another fingering that might be handy in circumstances... to reach the 5th valve my thumb must be IN the ring... but it keeps slipping out. i probably wouldn't use the 5th valve in fast passages anyway since i've drilled the original way so many years.

one thing i've noticed is there is some tension when i use the ring...

tension is a speed killer.

When I first owned my 5450 instrument, I tried the adjustable thumb ring and all sorts of positions - all of which were terrible.

I finally wised up, and realized that the thumb ring itself needed to be at an angle, rather than to come straight out of where it was connected. That solved everything.

I installed a piece of round tubing on a Chinese cimbasso that I bought, to help stabilize the instrument and to help stabilize my hand. Two or three months later - after posting pictures on the internet, I saw that the Chinese cimbassos were being supplied with those from the factory.

I don't think I've ever played a horn where I didn't remove the thumb ring. Maybe it's just the anatomy of my hand, or it could be the fifth valve placement on said horns, but they've always been in the way no matter how I adjust them.