TubaForum.net

If somebody wanted effectively a "piston valved Miraphone 186 CC", what tuba would you recommend to them and why?

Basically:

• 186 / 188 intonation (ie, "stellar". maybe a flat open E, pull on some 1+2 combos, maybe one sharp 2+3, then all the low pitch problems built into the 5 valve system)

• A 16.5 inch bell at the smallest to an 18 inch bell at the largest

• 4 pistons and 1 rotor

• Nothing weird or huge or honestly even 'big'

• Nothing you have for sale

• No weird valve angles

• No "it's bigger but..."

• No, a Mira 1291/2/3 CC is not a good solution

I have my own ideas and biases on this but I'm wondering what other folks would recommend.

https://www.tubaexchange.com/collection ... 2424028481
St Pete CC

Not 100% sure on the intonation aspect, but MW 2145 checks most of those boxes, yeah?

From those that I've played, I remember the intonation being good, but maybe not 188 good.

I remember the small piston version being different (not sure if bad or good) from the VMI conglomerate big valve version.

MW 2145, with a preference to the small valve/small bell version.

a 2155 with an aftermarket smaller mouthpipe tube… A bit larger, but a remarkable point and shoot instrument

I always thought of them like:

2145 = 186-ish

2155 = 188-ish

The only downside for me about these tubas is the stock fifth valve thumb lever. Made my hand cramp up.

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:45 am I always thought of them like:

2145 = 186-ish

2155 = 188-ish

The only downside for me about these tubas is the stock fifth valve thumb lever. Made my hand cramp up.

Downside for me is a lot like the Miraphones...

Seems like I'd push the 2145 too hard, too often.
The 2155 fixes that problem, but it's one size larger.

MW 2155 is a perfectly acceptable answer IMHO. It was a 4/4 tuba regardless of what MW called it.

Also IMHO, with the increased average "big-ness" of tubas these days, the difference between a 186 and a 188 to me seems pretty academic. While certainly different from one another, they're practically the same size. I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that they aren't both well in the realm of "4/4".

If I had entitled this thread "piston valve 188 CC" instead, I would still find all of these answers acceptable.

My problem with suggesting the 2145 is that I just don’t like those.

Another suggestion would be an exceptional Kalison DS model, but you would have to pick through five of them.

re: the 2155
They vary as well, but I’ve found them to be generally better than the look-alike model 2000.

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:11 pm My problem with suggesting the 2145 is that I just don’t like those.

I knew a guy who was a complete doofus who owned a 2145. It made me associate 2145s with the doofus, and thus (irrationally) dislike the tuba.

This doofus had a doofus friend who owned a 2155, and same story.

Years later, I played a 2145 again and thought it was nice. Not had a chance to try a post-doofus 2155, though.

---

back on topic:

Would a Meister Walter Nirschl 4/4 fit the bill?

I’ve played some of those that play remarkably well in tune, and others that don’t.
This runs the gamut from handmade, not handmade, and B&S/Besson-made

The ones with the Nirschl name on them seem to play a little woofie to me to be associated with a 186… maybe the “Besson“ ones, because they generally play sort of stiff - sort of like some of the mediocre 186 Instruments.

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:11 pm ...
re: the 2155
They vary as well, but I’ve found them to be generally better than the look-alike model 2000.

That's an intriguing statement.

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:20 pm ...
back on topic:

Would a Meister Walter Nirschl 4/4 fit the bill?

19 inch bell, so no.

when I worked for Brook mays music back around 2001, both the 2155 and the 2000 were well stocked, and I got to play several samples of both

At the time, dealer cost on the 2155 was around 6500 and the 2000 was around 9500. I could never justify that price difference, as I thought they played very similar to each other

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:24 pm I’ve played some of those that play remarkably well in tune, and others that don’t.
This runs the gamut from handmade, not handmade, and B&S/Besson-made

The ones with the Nirschl name on them seem to play a little woofie to me to be associated with a 186… maybe the “Besson“ ones, because they generally play sort of stiff - sort of like some of the mediocre 186 Instruments.

Wait. What? There are mediocre 186 instruments?

Does it need to be similar in shape as the 186? If not, I'd recommend the MW 3450. Not a popular model it seems

Works well enough for me for brass quintet

jtm wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:51 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:24 pm I’ve played some of those that play remarkably well in tune, and others that don’t.
This runs the gamut from handmade, not handmade, and B&S/Besson-made

The ones with the Nirschl name on them seem to play a little woofie to me to be associated with a 186… maybe the “Besson“ ones, because they generally play sort of stiff - sort of like some of the mediocre 186 Instruments.

Wait. What? There are mediocre 186 instruments?

I bought a mediocre one brand new in 1974.
The mediocre ones featured saggy third and fifth partials.

I’m gonna make the hard call here….. are you ready??

Nothing…. None. Nada.

With the exception of a frankenhorn that may live out there somewhere, I don’t think that horn exists. To me, the MW 45/55 models don’t have even close to the tight, centered tone and ‘feel’. That to me is a big word when talking about the 186 horns. They have a VERY distinct feel and response that I’ve only really felt in a couple other rotor horns. There’s a reason those horns have a spot in so many peoples hearts.

The Meinl Weston 45slp is probably physically about what you described, but not a CC tuba.

I think the B&S Apollo came in a piston version... Again, right physical size, but otherwise sort of a trainwreck of a tuba

'55 mouthpipe is a paper towel roll tube....TOO LARGE.
When tossed in the trash and replaced with a "normal" mouthpipe - these are amazing, and - yeah - "tighten" up.

oh yeah...The bell needs to be an "archie" bell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wro3bqi4Eb8

Kctuba wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:50 pm I’m gonna make the hard call here….. are you ready??

Nothing…. None. Nada.

With the exception of a frankenhorn that may live out there somewhere, I don’t think that horn exists. To me, the MW 45/55 models don’t have even close to the tight, centered tone and ‘feel’. That to me is a big word when talking about the 186 horns. They have a VERY distinct feel and response that I’ve only really felt in a couple other rotor horns. There’s a reason those horns have a spot in so many peoples hearts.