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Since I use synthetic valve oils, if I want to coat the valves of horns that will sit for a while with a synthetic version of Marvel Mystery Oil? Is there something like that?

The Kanstul valves freeze up pretty readily when I go a few weeks without playing it, and I'm about to go on a three-month tour with the Conn.

BopEuph wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:34 am Since I use synthetic valve oils, if I want to coat the valves of horns that will sit for a while with a synthetic version of Marvel Mystery Oil? Is there something like that?

The Kanstul valves freeze up pretty readily when I go a few weeks without playing it, and I'm about to go on a three-month tour with the Conn.

I've had good luck with Resilience Oil products. I've not played much lately due to work commitments and band outages, but when I have picked up the horn the valves have not been frozen.

hrender wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:33 am
I've had good luck with Resilience Oil products. I've not played much lately due to work commitments and band outages, but when I have picked up the horn the valves have not been frozen.

I use Hetman, which gives no issue on the Conn, but the Kanstul doesn't like not being played. I think it's just a matter of the horn's chemistry.

I had problems with Hetman's generating crud in the valves, which is why I switched to Resilience. It seems to be a body chemistry thing since I know other folks do fine with Hetman's.

Interesting; maybe it's a combination of horn and body, if one of my horns freezes up but another one doesn't.

I also crud up with Hetman's. I suggest a cheaper alternative: pharmacy grade mineral oil that is really, really, cheap. A few drops should keep the valves from freezing/sticking from non-use over time, and it should be very easy to clean out: just wipe down the valve and wipe out the casing and re-apply conventional valve oil when it comes time to play the tuba again. That is what I do (when I remember to) to my old souzy when it is done for the outdoor concert season so it hibernates peacefully over the winter.

You might also consider storing the horn on its side. Valve oil will pool on the side of the valve and won't drip out the top or bottom. If it hasn't evaporated, there should still be some in the casing. Just twirl the valve before playing.

Yes, this may be a bit flaky, but it's worked for me. You may want to look for an oil that does not tend to evaporate. Feel free to flame away . . .

I can't answer the question, but maybe it's helpful anyway to recognize that there was one, and it probably has no answer. That's why they call it Mystery. But to persist for a long time, you need something with little volatility, am I right? Maybe the heaviest synthetic oil you can get at the auto store. Then afterwards you'll have to wipe it all off.

i'm fighting the freeze here, too... i have 4 horns and if i don't cycle thru them at least once a week, the valves are stuck. i'm plagued with a whitish, gunk in the valves that looks like melted paraffin, a white, foamy goop that dries and sticks.

i'll try a little mineral oil...

.

tofu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:37 pmWhy not just remove the valves from the horn for long term storage?

Bingo.

GC wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:58 pm You might also consider storing the horn on its side. Valve oil will pool on the side of the valve and won't drip out the top or bottom. If it hasn't evaporated, there should still be some in the casing. Just twirl the valve before playing.

Well, since it's a front action, if the horn isn't laying flat on the floor, the valves are already (more or less) parallel to the ground.

donn wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:10 pm Maybe the heaviest synthetic oil you can get at the auto store.

Hmmm...maybe a synthetic 20-50 oil might work. Straight 50 might be far too thick.

tofu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:37 pm Why not just remove the valves from the horn for long term storage?

With my luck, something'd happen.

matt g wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:44 am

tofu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:37 pmWhy not just remove the valves from the horn for long term storage?

Bingo.

i've done that with my euphoniums... slides and valves. they've been calling to me though... the urge to play them is growing.

BopEuph wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:28 am Hmmm...maybe a synthetic 20-50 oil might work. Straight 50 might be far too thick.

20w/50 or whatever, I doubt it will make much difference. What's really important is the SN or whatever rating. Ha ha. No. Anyway, whatever weight you pick, it will last a reasonably long time, and make the tuba unplayable until it's cleaned out. Way too viscous. If you like the way Mystery smells, you can add some wintergreen to what you use. Wintergreen is supposed to make a good penetrating oil.

Not only too viscous, but I'm not sure that a person should ingest, even residue, something not designed to put onto an instrument or available from a pharmacy.

iiipopes wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:18 am Not only too viscous, but I'm not sure that a person should ingest, even residue, something not designed to put onto an instrument or available from a pharmacy.

That's a good point and something I should have thought about after living for so long.

donn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:15 am Anyway, whatever weight you pick, it will last a reasonably long time, and make the tuba unplayable until it's cleaned out. Way too viscous. If you like the way Mystery smells, you can add some wintergreen to what you use. Wintergreen is supposed to make a good penetrating oil.

That's the smell!? It's a nice smell, too!

Yes, and because it's strongly aromatic like that, it's like the reduced sulfur stench they put in natural gas -- if you smell it, you're getting the fumes mentioned in concern expressed above. Likely that will happen while you're fooling around with the valves, and not while playing. Also would bet money that valve oils in general are designed with no attention whatever to human health issues, beyond not being toxic if you get it on your fingers. They aren't designed for human consumption, and when used as intended they are in fact not consumed. MSDS for Blue Juice for example allows that if inhaled, could cause irritation of the upper respiratory tract, and ingestion could cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain ... so don't do that.

One can also get valve oils with other added scents, such as watermelon, grapefruit or of course bacon.

donn wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:28 am Yes, and because it's strongly aromatic like that, it's like the reduced sulfur stench they put in natural gas -- if you smell it, you're getting the fumes mentioned in concern expressed above. Likely that will happen while you're fooling around with the valves, and not while playing. Also would bet money that valve oils in general are designed with no attention whatever to human health issues, beyond not being toxic if you get it on your fingers. They aren't designed for human consumption, and when used as intended they are in fact not consumed. MSDS for Blue Juice for example allows that if inhaled, could cause irritation of the upper respiratory tract, and ingestion could cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain ... so don't do that.

One can also get valve oils with other added scents, such as watermelon, grapefruit or of course bacon.

Yes, most, if not all valve oils, do contain the petroleum distillate warnings. Yes, they should not be consumed. Yes, care should be taken to make sure fumes or even the oil itself, whether as an aerosol from playing or otherwise, is not aspirated. Yes, we play with dangerous stuff. That's why we should avoid complications with any other substances that could exacerbate the health risks of playing brass instruments. That is why I recommended the mineral oil, for long term storage and a proper cleanout when taking the instrument out of storage to play, used for decades, along with kerosene to a lesser extent, as a laxative, among other medical uses that involve injesting the substance in small quantities.

Like everything else, keeping in mind that Frank Lloyd Wright said there is nothing more uncommon than common sense, a reasonable approach will minimize the health risks of our common interest in playing brass instruments. As for myself, I specifically do not use flavored or scented products, because I want that chemical odor to remind me to be careful with the products. I must be doing alright, having played brass now for fifty years, because it doesn't seem to have affected me...'fected me...fected...none....

I've even heard of people who actually DRINK alcohol and who allow people to INJECT things into them without any knowledge of what's in those injections.