Is a 188 a 4/4 or 5/4 for fitting a mute?

[jtm]

Sorry to ask such a specific question in general chatter, but...

I need a straight mute for a Miraphone 188. Local shops don't have any. Online sellers describe their offerings with terms like "Medium CC (4/4)" and "Large CC (5/4 & 6/4)". The 188 doesn't seem like a large tuba, but I'd rather not guess wrong (absent any real mute measurements). Maybe I'll order a couple of sizes and return the one that doesn't fit :(

[bloke]

I might be tempted to get the smaller Humes & Berg metal mute and add cork.

The Wick is expensive, and might possibly be barely too large (??)

I think (??) there is another metal one that is sold with a couple of different names on it that might be between the Wick size and the small Humes & Berg size. I can’t remember either of those names…
If “American Way Marketing” it’s still in business, they were selling the one that I can’t recall either of the brand names.

[jtm]

The large humes and berg aluminum mute should work well as is. It's too small to use properly on my 601, but it has a much larger bell throat than the 188

[bloke]

The large humes and berg aluminum mute should work well as is. It's too small to use properly on my 601, but it has a much larger bell throat than the 188

I'd probably prefer to try this one (if someone nearby owns one) prior to pulling the trigger.
- I suspect it might be a bit too large (thus not being able to be inserted deep enough into a 188 to get the desired sonic effect).
- I have generally judged the larger H&B metal mute (and others disagree) to be a bit of a "stinker".

> I could well be wrong on all counts.

OK...
I suspect Faxx and JoRal may actually be the same, and may (??) be IN-BETWEEN the size of the small H&B and the Wick.

https://americanwaymktg.com/?s=tuba+mut ... SC&ixwps=1

Harmon...??
hmm (?????)

I believe they only sell to stores, and not to the public.
The last time I talked to them about aluminum tuba mutes, they told me they only had a dented display that they didn't want to sell.
I became frustrated with them, and gave up...but someone might have one...(at some sort of RETAIL price).

[LeMark]

the large H&B mute is a tailored fit size for a 186, so I don't see how it would be too large for a 188. I have both the large and small H&B mutes, the small one is only good enough for my Eb tuba.

I wish they made a larger size for my 601, I think they are incredible mutes, and when matched with an instrument that they actually fit, can be actually fun to play with.

[the elephant]

Tuba mutes are not to make you play softer. They need to be just as loud as the open horn, but they need to alter the tone to match whatever nonsensical mutes the trumpets and trombones use, which by and large are going to be very metallic and buzzy in timbre. The large H&B does this pretty well, but with most tuba mutes you really need to fit your own corks that have been cut to fit your bell, and the mute needs to have the correct balance between the size of the open end and the gap between the bell and mutes walls. This can be tricky to find, but if you take some time the results can be great.

I use a first-run Balu mute for my F tuba in quintet because this matches what our trumpets do in the few times I have had to be muted in that group. (They had to use cups while playing into the stand, and this mute is like stuffing a pillow into the tuba: overly soft, without any sort of metallic buzziness to the tone. I hate it, but it works, and Ion gave me a great discount on it in exchange for a review… MANY years ago…

I have one homemade mute for my CC tubas that is sort of like the Balu in tone. I use it when I need that sound in the orchestra, which is pretty much never, save for a few "20th-century masterpieces" of dubious quality, written by people who decided to use muted tuba after having read about it in some book but never actually hearing a muted tuba in the orchestra. (How incredibly brilliant of them…)

In the orchestra (and a few band pieces), I use my Denis Wick mute in my 186 and my 345. In the photos you can see how I decided to cork the thing, but later I removed the blocks and applied the fuzzy half of Velcro tape to the mute, making two sets of cork (four blocks in each set) so I can easily replace one size set with the other at need. It works very well. (I got the idea from Ion Balu.)

The photo of it in my 186 bell shows that it will fit a 188 pretty well. It is sticking out so much because this was the spacing I wanted, not because of the shape or size of the mute: this works best for Firebird: metallic, buzzy, clear, and LOUD. (OPINION: Mutes are devices designed to alter your tone, not your volume. If you need a mute to play softly enough, you are failing as a tuba player.)

The Wick also fits in my Holton 345 quite well, using the correctly-sized cork blocks. It is an all-around excellent mute. I have owned many mutes, and have even made a few from scratch. In my opinion, this mute is the best, with the larger Humes & Berg "Symphonic" spun aluminum one being my next choice. But Denis Wick knows this, and he will gleefully charge you an obscene amount of shekels to get one. Also, they seem to go out of stock regularly; actually getting one can take a long time.

I like the smaller H&B "Symphonic" for my F tuba quite a bit, but I do not currently own one. Perhaps this Christmas…?

Wick stock corks are too small for anything, pretty much…


Wick re-corked to fit 345 and 2165 bells…


Wick in 2165 bell…


Wick in 186 bell…

[bloke]

I honestly couldn't imagine using a large H&B in a 186 (and I've never seen anything written claiming it as a fit - at least not by H&B), but - again - to each his own.

one of my favorite quotes of one of my friends:

" ain't mine "

[the elephant]

The small one is too small to use in the orchestra at anything above mf, IMHO. The large one is a bit skinnier than the Wick, though it is a few inches longer. The end cap "bowl" is too shallow, for my taste, tone-wise. The Wick makes a sound that matches typical metal trumpet mutes. And you can still play loudly, as most muted material I have played calls for some volume.

[Mary Ann]

When I needed a mute for my 184, I called up Matt Walters and bought what he suggested. It worked. I'd suggest including him in the mix of queries.

[bloke]

I just think the big H&B sounds bad and clogs up in the low range (ie. "to be avoided, regardless of whatever").

Composers (as they mostly compose on the keyboard) like to write low muted terse short blatts for the tuba.

I have found the large H&B to be a "fail" in that regard, as well as presenting acoustical sound-bouncing-around-inside-it and pitch-altering flaws.

I picked up a metal Wick stupid-cheap, and use it on some stuff and the SMALL (amazing) H&B on F tuba and Holton B-flat (formerly with 186) stuff.

The small H&B seems as if God made it for B&S F tubas, and (with only 1/8" more cork) for PT-15 (larger bell throat) B&S F tubas...and the PT-15 and 186 bell throats are quite similar...
...so is a 188 a "bridge too far" for the SMALL H&B mute? (maybe...and maybe the Wick is JUST the thing for a 188.)

I just don't know how many people are going to be able to find a cheap Wick, and (also) I'm assuming that quite a few people (post January 2020) aren't doing great in the dough dept.

I don't have anything that's practical for my Miraphone 98.
I taped on some absurdly thick corks onto my Wick - and it sounds good - but it I'm just not going to be willing to (well...) screw up that mute like that permanently.
When I need grunty contrabass noises, I'll probably just use the Holton and the small H&B...VERY "strident/insistent/brash" sounding.

bloke "again: not a thick-corks-on-mutes type of person"

[the elephant]

That is why I want another small H&B for my Kurath, and why I do not own the large H&B. it is second to the Wick on my list, but by many miles.

I discovered with the large H&B (due to an unfortunate equipment truck accident while in y Army band) that cutting about four inches off the end helps it some. But the bowl is too shallow so the low range never develops or responds correctly. Shortening mine after it was smashed helped open up the low range and evened out the pitch discrepancies to be more predictable, but it made the MTS pull longer to be in tune.

I have an old Couesnon Eb bell that I have wanted to make a mute out of for years but the bucket on the end is not something I can even imagine making here at the house. So that will never happen.

I have tried for years to come up with a design that would not extend beyond the bell rim so it could be transported in the bell in a gig bag or case (if needed) but the bucket/bulb on the end is very needed. I guess it is something I can imagine but that in real-world applications will never work. (Usually, if I can imagine a thing fully rendered in my head I can somehow construct it *and* make it work. Not in the case of mutes, though. Apparently, I suck at that. My three homemade mutes have all been acoustic umbrella stands. HAHAHA!!!

[the elephant]

I just don't know how many people are going to be able to find a cheap Wick…

None. Zero. They are well over $300.

…I'm just not going to be willing to (well...) screw up that mute like that permanently…

Use the Velcro. It works quite well if you don't waste money and time making skinny cork blocks.

… not a thick-corks-on-mutes type of person…

To each his own, but jamming a mute down to the point where you only need .75" of cork is a bad idea, murdering the response, and sounding just awful. I am not sure what you mean, though, since ALL mutes taper A LOT MORE than tuba bells. So near to the big end, it will be as close as it can get, and the small end will be inches from the bell all the way around. I do not use long cork strips, but short blocks, so the mute contacts at eight very small points so that the mute cannot shift around inside the bell. (I have had mutes shift around inside the bell because the corks could only make contact at the top. They need to be secure at the bottom too.

I wish the Wick was about a hundred less so I could have two with permanent corks, but the Velcro works very well. I just think it looks mediocre. I got the idea from my Balu mute and the eight small contact points from some R&S black plastic mute from years ago that I tried. It had adjustable feet that made it fit very nicely to a lot of differently sized and shaped bells. Too bad it sounded like a trash can on the end of the horn.

I want to try some of the Shilpf mutes, but the examples I have heard did not have the metallic buzziness I need in the orchestra. I think one for my F would work well enough in quintet, though. But I have no idea which of the seemingly man models would fit my horn. If I ever get serious about getting one I'll call Lee; I think he still represents that company here in the US.

[bloke]

When a composer only writes two mutes pitches - and with only two seconds to insert/remove a mute. I (at least, mentally) WiteOut the mute indication in the music.
Consistently, here's what Music Directors have had to say about that:

Otherwise - if a muted passage is someone prominent (and the piece - overall - is a bit terse), I'll (again) probably use the B&S F tuba or Holton B-flat.
Trying to mute a jumbo (Miraphone 98...Holton 345, etc.) and get a really terse sound...yeah...possible, but (as just previously indicated) there are much easier ways to achieve that type of sound, other than with a tuba that - by it's nature - produces a sound at the very other end of the tuba-sonority spectrum. ...ie. "Hey...Let's put some glass packs on this 1976 Coupe de Ville!"

"In the Chicago Symphony, we do not use the mute in Ein Heldenleben..." (...and don't blame Gene...I'm not quoting him.)

Well, ain't that just special.

I also notice that "In the Chicago Symphony" (sure, and in other American orchestras following suit) jumbo tubas have been epically overused.

[kingrob76]

The large H&B mute fits a 188 VERY well. My large H&B fit THIS 188 VERY well and it seemed to play just fine. That being said, If you can find one of the dozen or so Balu "Sputnik" mutes (which have a metallic end and a little metal piece inside), those are amazing. I'll sell most anything but my Sputnik will only be sold to finance my funeral. Ion wasn't happy with the results from trying to stain the metal consistently and deemed this too much work to make - but the sound is <chef's kiss> perfection.