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Posts whereby someone gets on their high horse to "preach to the masses" is about some aspect of playing don't come off very well, and particularly not from someone assuming the position of "we professionals"... and particularly not from someone like me who only makes about $10,000 to $20,000 a year at the very most from playing - driving all over the place and playing all sorts of jobs...

... but here's the topic:

From time to time, I sit in with a community band that is nice enough to allow me to do so, and I have lots of friends there. I do it when I have a gap in gigs, I feel like I should go somewhere and play with someone, and when I happen to not feel exhausted on a particular Monday evening.

The tuba section features some pretty darn good players, one of them is sort of a retired professional bass trombonist who decided to buy a compensating E-flat tuba and amuse themselves. Another one is simply a really accomplished amateur.

Not from them - but maybe from the trumpets or some other section, I will hear hooting and hollering under people's breath when a piece is pulled up which features something like six sharps or six flats.

At least when it comes to B flat brass, these finger patterns aren't any more difficult for many others, and sort of feature rocking back and forth between the 1st and 3rd fingers - pivoting on the second. It just seems to me that the only issue is familiarity, and there are so many etudes and solos that are either in F major or G major that can be played in F sharp major or G flat major, that getting past a familiarity problem would be pretty easy, yes?

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:25 am
... I will hear hooting and hollering under people's breath when a piece is pulled up which features something like six sharps or six flats.

That was me, you idiot!

It's not fingers, it's neural pathways that have never been fully formed, especially back in the younger years when forming them was easier.

And even if they were formed, the music in sharp keys comes up so rarely in band lit that those pathways don't stay in trim.

It's all I can do to get in enough practice time to work up music--I don't get to sit around for two hours a day playing specific etudes to build skills I rarely if ever need. And I never went through books of etudes for teachers or anything like that--never had any instruction at all until I was in my middle 20's. I certainly did not study and play music for most of every day in college--in fact I didn't play at all during those years. But I was honing lots of other neural pathways on topics for which pro musicians would have little need.

I do play all the scales routinely, so the finger patterns are there anyway for lots of things. But recognizing those patterns in the written music on the fly? Nope--gonna need some time in the woodshed.

When I see lots of sharps, I grown, but inwardly.

Rick "but complaining about six flats? That does come up often" Denney

Not by any means calling myself a professional or a very good tubist; but i enjoy seeing different and challenging music. Sharps and flats included.

However, there is one Sousa march that comes up quite often where the opening theme is an absolute nightmare for Cc tuba. Cake on Bb.

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Rick Denney wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:49 pm stuff about "forget it, because those people are old" and stuff

Maybe, people should have been fooled - as are bagpipe players - into thinking they're playing in sharp keys when - all along - they're playing in flat keys.

It seems to me that an awful lot of people own a book called "Tyrell" something or other, which has a bunch of F major stuff that could be played in F sharp.

bloke "OK.. if not F-sharp major, what about D-sharp minor?"

Trumpet players are also the ones that get different pitched trumpets for music transposed into those keys so that the fingerings are better or something.

Trombone and horn players typically only have one "home" key and flat/sharp friendliness comes with skill.

Tuba players, on the other hand, will typically have some level of knowledge playing with at least two pitches of tubas, somewhat commonly four, and nearly always read music written without any transposition.

I know our parts aren't the hardest, but I do think quite a few of us have a pretty good grasp with finger flexibility. I mean, we are even dumb enough to stick up to six valves on our tubas! :-)

I've done a bit of experimentation and exploration with a B extension for a C tuba and an A extension for B flat tuba. People made jokes about those or even sort of shook their finger at me. :
That's fine. I'm just trying to explore and learn.
The trumpet array of choices has already been mentioned, but the requisite ownership of clarinets in A not been mentioned until this sentence was typed.
Whether someone plays for the love of it or for the money of it, most everyone also plays for fun. When abilities are expanded and comfort zones are also expanded, there's increased potential for fun.

I'm very sure that as brass players, we're good at playing in keys from 1 to 4 flats because that's the majority of the literature, and that's it.

Most string players would say the same exact thing about 1 to 4 sharps, and my legit bass playing friends do very similar whining about playing in B-flat, which, as a jazz bassist, is an incredibly easy key for me to play in. Rock/pop/folk guitarists and bassists are used to playing in E and A, while jazz musicians on the same instruments are more "at home," so to speak, a half step lower.

I'm of the firm belief that if wind players learned from beginning string method books, which are generally in G and D for beginning string players, the wind players would also be happier playing in G and D. I've always wondered about bringing up a beginning euphonium player by going through the Essential Elements for Strings cello book before introducing them to a euphonium book, but that would probably hurt their performance with a band in the beginning of their musical journey,

I once transcribed Sir Duke for a show band I was in, and got reamed by the horn players for "daring" to keep it in the original key of B, which is apparently too hard. I've had no issue playing the horn line on my BBb Conn, and would even dare say the fingerings lay very easily on my hands. I can't say the same about the sax players, but I caught a lot of flack from the trumpet and trombone player in that band, too.

The griping usually comes from musicians who, for whatever reason, haven't gotten comfortable playing in the key they're whining about, and that's it.

I don't think I do it as much as I did in the past, but I used to stay fairly irritated/worked up - due to putting myself under a lot of pressure all the time, and - when I was in the car - I would run my fingers through fairly complicated jazz ballads or stuff like that (pretending to be playing any of the four lengths of tubas) in what would probably be considered remote keys, including the bridges and verses. It tended to calm me down, and helped me control my temper around idiot urban drivers. I think that really strengthened my familiarity with more keys, particularly since I didn't even have any sheet music to stare at, and had to really concentrate to keep track of what I was doing (along with avoiding colliding with other cars and keeping mine out of ditches).