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I claim to "not warm up" nor begin with a "routine" (and I don't - I've posted this several times, here), but what I actually do is to work on particular things (playing mechanics - that might be found within someone's else "routine") after I've been playing for a bit.

Here are some reasons for not working on any of that stuff first:

- Though I do play - from time-to-time - in quintets, I rarely play with wind-bands (where playing is nearly constant). Mostly, I'm hired to play in two or three different per-service orchestras. The "routine" there is to sit around for a while, and then - suddenly - play stuff (that's most often either quite loud or quite soft, and - often - quite exposed). Warming up before an orchestra rehearsal seems silly, because (often) I'm going to be (as it were) "cold" again by the time I play much of anything...and (even with a quintet job), I'm absolutely not going to show up 45 minutes to an hour ahead at some venue, and then ask for use of some room where I can annoy the crap out of people by "warming up" (adjacent to others' offices...and we know how the sound of a tuba carries).

- I prefer to look forward to practicing, rather than dreading it...and I like to get right in to playing "music" - rather than working on mechanics.
I'm fine with working on mechanics AFTER I've enjoyed playing at least SOME music.

- I don't wish to trap myself into some psychological thing whereby I ONLY give myself "permission" to play well IF I first pay the price of a "warm-up routine". I prefer to always feel/believe that I can pick up my instrument (just as singers who sing and play guitar do so on TV interviews) and perform music right away.

again: It's not that I don't work on reviewing the mechanics of playing; I do. It's just that I don't wish for "working on mechanics" to become an "admission ticket" to playing music - and/or playing music well, and I don't want "working on mechanics" to become dreaded or a drudgery - as surely then I would likely do it less. If I'm semi-exhausted - and only have about thirty minutes of "playing energy", I'm going to use that energy to play music (and "music" INCLUDES etudes) rather than mechanics. I also want to be able to play as well as I can WHETHER OR NOT my mouthpiece is warm to the touch, and WHETHER OR NOT my instrument is warm to the touch. Playing in tune, connected, free of bobbles, and expressively with a cold face, cold mouthpiece, and a cold instrument are skills that I NEED and USE.

Something else...When I work some some of the very fine jazz musicians with whom I work (ie. some of my "betters"...to be even more clear: BETTER THAN ME), they all put their instruments together, make sure everything is working (perhaps wet their reeds on their various woodwinds etc., or strum a couple of chords to check tuning, or touch the heads on their drum set and check the mechanics), and then SIT QUIETLY until it's time to begin. They don't go through "routines", but - once it's time to start playing music - they're absolutely on the money.

Quite a few years ago, I was supposed to play a university faculty quintet performance at 8 A.M. in a high school band room in an adjacent state.
That place was about an hour from my home. There was a power outage (prior to everyone having cell phones), I overslept, and woke up barely more than an hour before I was supposed to be there. I skipped the shower/breakfast/only shaved around my lips/etc., combed my hair, cleaned myself up with alcohol and a washcloth, threw on my clothes, and took off. I arrived in the band room at about 7:58 A.M. pulled the tuba out of the bag, and we began our little program with some rip-roaring movement of a piece...ie. one of those "look what we can do" types of pieces. My playing sounded the same as ever, and the first sound I made was the first note of the piece. One of the university's teachers laughed afterwards and quietly asked, "How can you do that?" After I figured out what they were actually asking, I just explained that I always (simply) begin playing (at home or wherever) by playing music (and no pre-music-playing razzmatazz).

The "being able to play well when cold and when everything is - in fact - cold", is - in particular - important to be able to do, at least in my view.
If you are a young or middle-aged person and auditioning for admission to a school or for some performance organization, consider walking by your instrument (when you have a couple of minutes between other tasks with which you're involved), picking it up, doing nothing other than checking for collected water, and starting right in on one of your solo or test pieces. That's actually more how it's likely to be - in many audition types of situations.

Heh. I judge all state band here, and we invite kids to come in, play a few notes, "get used to the room," whatever. By far, the kids who do best are the ones that just jump right into the audition music. The ones who play a couple scales, long tones, parts of a band warmup thing, are the ones that by and large struggle.

I think there is merit in something you've said before, in "warming up" by literally "warming up" your body doing some light aerobic exercise as opposed to focusing solely on the tuba playing muscles.

yeah...if I (actually) "warm up", just walking down the road into blokeplace and back (I'm sure) has more of a positive effect on my subsequent playing than would a "routine", because a "routine" doesn't do anything for my heart rate and adrenaline level...

...and (if I feel a bit "not with it" - prior to playing at home) that's just what I will do.

(at the risk of yattering on...)

Think of how much more serious the consequences of driving a motor vehicle are, vs. playing a musical instrument...
yet we simply walk out to the vehicle, get in, start the engine, and (particularly, with today's vehicles), go.

If I have the luxury of warming up, that’s nice (and it feels good), but it is unnecessary. A warmup is not a prerequisite for playing or making music.

More often than not, my routine is:
- Show up to the dance/gig/show/festival, set up, maybe play a couple of notes to make sure the
plumbing works, tune my bass, have a beer, take a safety
pi$$, go on stage, grip it and rip it.

- Show up to a band concert, set up, play a couple of
notes to make sure the plumbing works, take a safety
pi$$, go on stage, grip it and rip it.

If you are a student, a pro, or an otherwise fervent practitioner of the tuba, and you have the horn on your face frequently throughout the day and evening, you stay as warmed up as you will ever need to be. You sure as hell don’t need an additional 10-15min warm up.

In any case, feeling compelled to warm up or feeling insecure because you didn’t warm up are both a false, unnecessary feeling. Save your feelings for the musical message. The human body is an amazing creation, and it will respond and perform without any problems, save for any mental hurdles we create for ourselves (ouch!). But Bill… playing cold doesn’t “feel” as good as playing warm. True, but we don’t play by feel. We play by song.

My teacher (a student of Bill Bell’s) insisted I be ready to play after a minimum (if any) notes. I always blessed his wisdom! You either CAN play, or you can’t…

YMMV seems so true.

At home, during a practise session, I always warm up with some scales; doing that gets some warm air into the instrument and if the instrument is cold it just doesn’t respond at all well for me.

At Band practise I’ll perhaps, usually even, play a few long tones to get a bit of air through the instrument and check the valves plus water keys. The rehearsals nearly always start with either a few hymns or a march and that gets everyone ‘warmed up’ ready for the more serious playing - though, of course, there’s always something to be learned by polishing those first pieces too.

Playing out can be a challenge but you can push warm air through an instrument without playing a note. This Christmas the Band played in a local Church and we had a long gap between playing, say 30 plus minutes in a cool building, on restarting I struggled with my (now cold) instrument ‘cause it didn’t do what it should have done.

Perhaps it’s just me and I’m likely a weaker player than the bulk of folk here but in my experience cold instruments give issues. Would I be OK in a concert hall, coming in for a few bars after resting for five minutes? It’s probable that I would (I’m a better player than I once was) but that church experience taught me much - life’s one long session in the learning lab.

Several years back I attended a Brian Bowman master class. This was back when he was playing in the Air Force band. The first thing he did was demonstrate his warm up, which was playing a four-octave chromatic scale. He said that if all the notes worked he was good to go. If he sensed a problem area he might do a little more work. He also mentioned that he generally played about five hours a day and those who played less might need to do a bit more.

I also remember reading an Interview with Tommy Johnson where he mentioned warming up by doing a little mouthpiece buzzing while driving to the studio. He said once he stopped at a red light on a six lane road and noticed that in the cars on either side of him were other studio players. All three of them were buzzing waiting for the light to change.

While this is not, strictly speaking, a warm up, I remember a story from Arnold Jacobs. He said that during the Reiner days everyone feared the Maestro stopping the rehearsal and making them play a passage individually. Playing one on one for Reiner was much more stressful than playing in a performance. If there was a passage in a piece that Jacobs thought might get singled out he would find a time to play it before rehearsal started when he knew Reiner could hear it. That way he got to play it on his terms.

yeah...

I believe (because I've worked on it) that playing at one's best immediately is a skill, and playing on an instrument and mouthpiece that are room temperature (for me, that's 63° - 80° F. depending on the season, as I don't like paying a whole lot for stuff that only lasts for a moment - things such as utilities/entertainment/food/etc.) is something to which someone can become (or teach themselves to become) accustomed.

I recall during my "kolij" years that I made a big production out of practicing...I would go through this long-@$$ "routine", and even (prior to the "routine") walk down to the men's room and warm up my mouthpiece with warm water from the sink...I wasted tons of valuable time "getting into it" while the "routine" (which no one was interested in hearing) became the thing that I played more than anything else.

again:
I'm NOT saying that I DON'T work on "fundamentals"...I (finally) taught myself to execute lip trills (15 year ago or so). When I sense those are getting sloppy, I'll work on them. When I read through a passage in F-sharp minor - and my read-through sucks, I'll review my F-sharp minor (three versions of) scales and arpeggios...etc.

LONG TONES:
I do have something so say about this...
For those who do these daily (let's say, 12 beats at mm. 60 with a crescendo from pp to ff and back to pp - expanding intervals beginning around F at the bottom of the staff...) and a tuner is NOT used, some may (??) discover that (when a tuner is finally employed) their tuning is horrid (from the softest to the loudest and back to the softest). THE MOST DIFFICULT THING about cresc-dim. long tones is CONTROLLING PITCH, and - at least, to me (??) - the whole point of "long tones" - 100% - is to control TUNING, and not so much to see how much of a "world class sound" I can create...though maintaining BOTH a marketable/salable resonance while ALSO keeping the tuning between the ditches IS most of the challenge.
There's nothing the screws up the tuning of a low brass chord, brass chord, or entire ensemble chord (orchestra/band) more than an out-of-tune tuba...and MOST chords seem to be requested by composers (who've written more interesting music) are either quite soft or quite loud - with far fewer of them at "mezzo".

I have a professional trombone friend who does a "routine", which always involves doing stuff that he never has to do. "If I can do that, I can do whatever I'm asked to do"...OK, that makes some sense, and I myself do some of that (range/speed/volume-extremes-with-still-marketable-resonance/what-have-you), but I'll do some of that stuff after I've already played a few "songs".

Of course, when I'm sitting in the back of an orchestra for ten minutes during a performance or thirty minutes during a rehearsal and am finally asked to enter and play some chords at a very soft volume level, I have been striving to keep the instrument warm with my body, but it's still not nearly as warm as it would be had I've been playing it. Playing very soft tones in the middle register of the instrument - without playing them flat, and particularly if it's a pitch on the third partial of an instrument that's cold: that's a skill, and requires the ability to favor ("lip") pitches a great deal, and without ruining their resonance qualities.

Just because you can pick up a horn and perform "cold" just fine doesn't mean you should, as a matter of practice. The fact you can do it simply means you've developed enough muscle memory and physiological control for your brain to correctly tell your body what to do without being reminded. An extraordinarily well-trained person (such as Dr. Bowman) has practiced and drilled so much that his body could repeat what it needs to in his sleep with no prompting other than his brain saying "go". 'Paying your dues' for years and years facilitates being able to jump in and go.

A Major League pitcher could very well pick up a ball cold and throw it 100 MPH (if he is already capable of doing that) but very few people, probably no one, will say it's a good idea to do it cold. A world-class sprinter could hop off the bus and run a 9.8 second 100-meter sprint but like the pitcher, most would cite that as a bad idea. The human body responds better and can reach it's maximum capacity when it is warmed up prior to exerting maximum effort. There's less risk of injury and a higher level of consistent performance.

Arguably, playing a brass instrument is not a maximum effort activity on every note so the potential for acceptable or even favorable results is increased when preparation is not performed. A consistent routine prior to performance prepares the muscles AND the brain to achieve maximum results more often than it would otherwise. The individual routine can and will vary, with the desired outcome simply to reach a "ready" state.

For me, a routine shuts out the world around me and brings my brain to my playing. My focus is better when I perform, and I'm generally more comfortable physically as I perform.

Show me the "warm-up" opportunity for the Marche au Supplice.

Saturday night:

Hold up there for a few minutes, Maestro; I need to run through my scales, arpeggios, long tones, and lip trills...oh yeah, and let me please "test" some octave B-flats.

yeah...I believe - as far as playing "cold" is concerned - I actually should; it's better for my economy.

arpthark wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 3:04 pm Heh. I judge all state band here, and we invite kids to come in, play a few notes, "get used to the room," whatever. By far, the kids who do best are the ones that just jump right into the audition music. The ones who play a couple scales, long tones, parts of a band warmup thing, are the ones that by and large struggle.

I think there is merit in something you've said before, in "warming up" by literally "warming up" your body doing some light aerobic exercise as opposed to focusing solely on the tuba playing muscles.

I think that there’s a lot to be said for preparedness of mind, body and instrument. The type of student that aces examinations has everything under his or her control and is simply just ready to demonstrate to you their excellence. Me, I’m not really that type of person, I need to slope the table in my favour and then just do my best … but some folk are really well prepared and can just wing things too.

I have to go through a relaxation process to help control the shakes. And then there’s the generally insufficient practice.

There’s a lot of history required to be permanently warmed up.

And I find a good warmup lasts all day. If I have no opportunity at the gig, a warmup at home earlier that day will help a lot.

Jacobs said he never needed to warm up because the symphony and his students had him playing all the time anyway. But I doubt he ever spent several weeks on the road for non-tuba work travel and then felt comfortable about jumping into a gig cold, either.

But yes to starting with music rather than technique drills and scales. And yes to bringing good fundamentals to the first note.

Rick “not thinking the first notes should be above the staff routinely, however—the only aspect of playing to which Rob’s analogy seems to apply” Denney

There was a trumpet player in the Netherlands who didn't warm up. Until the moment he developed a lip paralyzes. Of course he is in a different ballgame in using his lips then we do, but we also use lip muscles.
I don't think you should do some chops, but it doesn't hurt to play long notes at ppp.

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 1:52 pm I have to go through a relaxation process to help control the shakes. And then there’s the generally insufficient practice.

There’s a lot of history required to be permanently warmed up.

And I find a good warmup lasts all day. If I have no opportunity at the gig, a warmup at home earlier that day will help a lot.

Jacobs said he never needed to warm up because the symphony and his students had him playing all the time anyway. But I doubt he ever spent several weeks on the road for non-tuba work travel and then felt comfortable about jumping into a gig cold, either.

But yes to starting with music rather than technique drills and scales. And yes to bringing good fundamentals to the first note.

Rick “not thinking the first notes should be above the staff routinely, however—the only aspect of playing to which Rob’s analogy seems to apply” Denney

Lately, I've been picking up the huge tuba cold, and playing through (as I've been discussing the Ring excerpts on this site) Rhinegold "dragon" excerpt, which begins on a "double-low" E-flat.

I need to sit and think for just few seconds (of how it should sound, how it should be expressed, and the tempo) before playing that first pitch...and the second time through has always been better than the first...but I'm working towards the FIRST time sounding closer-and-closer to the second time...

==========================================

As far as the Dutchman playing the trumpet was concerned...
I knew I woman who ate cheesecake; she's dead...but it might not have been the cheesecake.
I suspect the fork.

The fewer the superstitions...

(metal thickness/alloy/initial rotation direction of rotors/custom piston porting, the way the chair "transfers energy" to the floor, the way a blobby mouthpiece does-or-does-not "transfer energy" to the rest of the instrument, the type of oil, how much time or pages-of-stuff is spent (perhaps even watching TV, and not even concentrating/listening to oneself while playing) on "fundamentals", the only way to gain permission to play well is via playing through a bunch of "fundamentals" first, and any of that other sort of jazz...)

...the more we (at least ~ I ~) can concentrate on playing music well, accurately, with enough interesting phrasing structure to hold patrons' attention, and (sure) between-the-ditches - tuning-wise, the more likely I am to get called...(as with today: a well-paying gig-out-of-nowhere...in the middle of the "dead-of-summer"). ADDITIONALLY (likely), the less I am to succumb to "focal dystonia"...whereby (again: just as with really talented pop singing artists) I should (simply) be able to pick up my instrument and play something/anything/requests/whatever...

bloke "Practicing is important, but practicing should nearly exactly resemble PERFORMING - whether 'fundamentals' or tunes."

OK...I realize that I'm ranting, but, also...

"I don't 'feel' good today and/or that phrase/piece/solo/concert didn't 'feel' good to play...THEREFORE, it didn't SOUND good" = non sequitur.
Quite a few years ago...a "noteworthy tuba player" (surprisingly to me) stuck their head in on a woodwind quintet rehearsal (where I was playing that Armand Russell piece - [name of piece...??] for solo tuba and ww quintet). Back then, I was still capable of being made to feel "nervous"...and (yup) I felt "nervous". One of the players in the quintet recorded the rehearsal. I listened to it later (as the "noteworthy tuba player" only offered accolades (of which I was suspicious that I was being patronized). In that particular case, they were accurate; I had "played my ass off"...and the fact that I didn't 'feel' good when playing had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the quality of the product I was putting out. In fact, the performance was ALSO recorded - where I didn't feel even the least bit nervous... I listened critically to that tape as well: I didn't quite play as well.

Since too much thought into what I'm doing causes mayhem, I don't warm up much. I play whatever I know is NOT going to cause mayhem, until I can get my mind off what I'm doing an onto the music. When the focus is on the music, mayhem is vastly reduced. I also, after all these years, have sort of auto-responses to when the lips and face start to go into twitching spasms, that stop them by using the involved muscles doing something else, which breaks the cycle. I still avoid stress situations but never thought I'd be this "good" again. Not what was, but usable.

bloke wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 2:26 pm "I don't 'feel' good today and/or that phrase/piece/solo/concert didn't 'feel' good to play...THEREFORE, it didn't SOUND good" = non sequitur.
Quite a few years ago...a "noteworthy tuba player" (surprisingly to me) stuck their head in on a woodwind quintet rehearsal (where I was playing that Armand Russell piece - [name of piece...??] for solo tuba and ww quintet). Back then, I was still capable of being made to feel "nervous"...and (yup) I felt "nervous". One of the players in the quintet recorded the rehearsal. I listened to it later (as the "noteworthy tuba player" only offered accolades (of which I was suspicious that I was being patronized). In that particular case, they were accurate; I had "played my ass off"...and the fact that I didn't 'feel' good when playing had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the quality of the product I was putting out. In fact, the performance was ALSO recorded - where I didn't feel even the least bit nervous... I listened critically to that tape as well: I didn't quite play as well.

To your point, all the 33 years I was a band director, I found that my best musician/best players were always extremely self-critical and very hard on themselves. One example: an all-state saxophonist played her solo at the state contest and did the most amazing job I had ever heard. After she left the room, the judge raved to me about her playing and offered her a scholarship on the spot to a very large university. When I went out in the hall, she was having a complete melt-down because she "messed it all up". I assured her that was not the case. That happened many times with kids over the years.

Jperry1466 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:59 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 2:26 pm "I don't 'feel' good today and/or that phrase/piece/solo/concert didn't 'feel' good to play...THEREFORE, it didn't SOUND good" = non sequitur.
Quite a few years ago...a "noteworthy tuba player" (surprisingly to me) stuck their head in on a woodwind quintet rehearsal (where I was playing that Armand Russell piece - [name of piece...??] for solo tuba and ww quintet). Back then, I was still capable of being made to feel "nervous"...and (yup) I felt "nervous". One of the players in the quintet recorded the rehearsal. I listened to it later (as the "noteworthy tuba player" only offered accolades (of which I was suspicious that I was being patronized). In that particular case, they were accurate; I had "played my ass off"...and the fact that I didn't 'feel' good when playing had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the quality of the product I was putting out. In fact, the performance was ALSO recorded - where I didn't feel even the least bit nervous... I listened critically to that tape as well: I didn't quite play as well.

To your point, all the 33 years I was a band director, I found that my best musician/best players were always extremely self-critical and very hard on themselves. One example: an all-state saxophonist played her solo at the state contest and did the most amazing job I had ever heard. After she left the room, the judge raved to me about her playing and offered her a scholarship on the spot to a very large university. When I went out in the hall, she was having a complete melt-down because she "messed it all up". I assured her that was not the case. That happened many times with kids over the years.

There are, I suspect, several different things that could be going on with such young people. I would note though that the folk who seem to make best progress in playing are those that critically appraise their performance and practise and strive for excellence. I’m never going to be a great player - which is OK by me - but what I am is an improving player. Why am I an improving player? The simple answer is because, like others here and some of those young folk, I do practise and I do - pretty much all the time - gently push along at finding ways to improve.

I’ve found it interesting that one improvement or skill for some to acquire - though it’s rarely relevant to me - is the ability to force a cold instrument to respond like it was warmed up. Whether that’s potentially harmful to the chops I don’t know, but some folk do buzz (I don’t) and maybe that helps them … and maybe others just have chops that genuinely are tough enough to cope.

I would imagine that "muscling through" the "playing cold" situation may not be the best tack, and will be audibly undesirable - as the "muscling" might be a bit too apparent in the sonority.

I suspect (with me or others dealing with a mouth that hasn't played any pitches and an instrument that hasn't played an pitches since yesterday - or since the beginning of a long symphony, etc.) might be more like the computerized "choke" functions on most all automobiles, these days (and I barely alluded to this, earlier).

Today (unlike decades ago) cars feature computer programs that know how to optimize things for "running cold".
It's been possible now - for quite some time - to (simply) start an automobile, and drive it.

If interested in figuring out how, I'm pretty sure that most players (regardless of "talent/ability/level of achievement", etc.) can come up with strategies that optimize "playing cold" - as alternatives to some absolutely-mandatory giving-oneself-permission-to-play-well "routine" (if need be).

Mostly, I believe that a lot of people have never pursued this, either because the advantages of it never occurred to them, or because they were told by one or more people that it isn't possible.

I don't converse with fellow musicians (who may not play for money) by stepping up on some stump and referring to myself as (the royal) "we professionals" and viewing them as "something less" (and all I am is a dirty/sweaty/union-scale-or-contract-paid/blue-collar/free-lance/might-even-play-for-less-than-a-hundred-bucks/per-service musician). I assume that most all musicians can do most all types of things with their instruments - if they work on doing them. I am NOT "talented". Finally, I believe the mindset "Well, only professionals can do that" wreaks of defeatism. I'm also aware that - among all who play the instruments I play - I rank somewhere in the "he's OK" median area. OK...and (beyond all of that) I've heard more than one or two (plenty of) remarkably exquisitely-performing people who play "for the love of it" who simply are not interested in playing for remuneration.

arpthark wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 3:04 pm Heh. I judge all state band here, and we invite kids to come in, play a few notes, "get used to the room," whatever. By far, the kids who do best are the ones that just jump right into the audition music. The ones who play a couple scales, long tones, parts of a band warmup thing, are the ones that by and large struggle.

I think there is merit in something you've said before, in "warming up" by literally "warming up" your body doing some light aerobic exercise as opposed to focusing solely on the tuba playing muscles.

I had that as my go-to philosophy for a while until I had a very particular experience. It wasn't an audition per se - they were going to have me play with them. But they wanted to make sure I COULD play, so I was set up in a dressing room with the conductor to play for him for about 5 minutes so he could assure himself I wouldn't embarrass him onstage.

That room was AWFUL. I've never been in a more uncomfortable situation playing-wise. The (low) ceiling reflected everything right back at me, and after a bit, I was playing by muscle memory because I couldn't trust anything I was hearing. It was as a result not a fully representative performance of what I can do. There was one practice room at my college that was as bad as it, which I always avoided, but aside from that, I've never played in a worse space.

SO HAVING SAID THAT, I have always, since then, tested the room before actually starting to see if (a) it's a bad space; and (b) if so, there is anything I can do to mitigate it.

Okay we're off to a side topic and that's fine.

The opposite of that what you describe are the echo chamber type of places which either are cathedrals or - for whatever reason - the sound echoes inside of them as it does in cathedrals. That can be really confusing.