Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:03 am
Saw this online today. Looks like a great project.
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Another 345 restoration
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Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:08 am
next step: cut it to C!
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:32 am
WOW! She's a BEAUT!!
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:28 am
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:44 am
#3-to-upper-bow braces look to be quite long - as they were with @tubaing's (old repair: Conn-flanges substitute) braces on his instrument, before I (did my best to) straighten it all out.
I tend to suspect that "how far the top of the valve section hung/hangs out away from the instrument" had/has just as much (more?) to do which "who originally assembled it at the factory", as it did/does with "how it was stuck back together later, after having been abused".
It doesn't take much of a variance in the angle of the dogleg (heading from the bugle down to the main slide) to really alter this geometry.
posted on this site's repairs forum by Kevin:
It was sorta fun working on Kevin's. I don't buff/lacquer customers' tubas (as the quality of my spraying work can tend to vary (from unexpectedly-amazing to [to me] upsetting)...and I don't want a customer to be upset with that final aspect of a job, but - when I sell stuff (as those instruments are - at that time - bloke-owned) - I might venture into the spraying domain...but prefer to spray when it's winter - when the humidity is down, and bugs are dead.
Later, I might tackle that other 345 (repairs forum) that I was trying to finish at the same time I was working on Kevin's...but "life" happened, so it's sitting - about 4/5th done.
I've never done the scotchbrite thing. I figure the customer can do that - if they so choose. It's easy to apply, but requires hours of buffing (and some sacrificing of the instrument) to undo. When I've done my best to smooth out a very-scratched-up instrument, I've chosen to (old-school finish) glass-bead-blast and silver plate it, as that cloaks the scratches completely, and removes far less material than does "buffing the crap out of" deep scratches.
The one that's "sitting" is the one on the left. For years, the bell (which I had cleaned but neglected to put in an old case with the formerly-dented bow parts) sat out in the attic...thus: the somewhat even patination.
Had I been stubborn - and finished both at the same time - Kevin's would have been delayed to the point that he probably would have justifiably become upset.
I tend to suspect that "how far the top of the valve section hung/hangs out away from the instrument" had/has just as much (more?) to do which "who originally assembled it at the factory", as it did/does with "how it was stuck back together later, after having been abused".
It doesn't take much of a variance in the angle of the dogleg (heading from the bugle down to the main slide) to really alter this geometry.
posted on this site's repairs forum by Kevin:
It was sorta fun working on Kevin's. I don't buff/lacquer customers' tubas (as the quality of my spraying work can tend to vary (from unexpectedly-amazing to [to me] upsetting)...and I don't want a customer to be upset with that final aspect of a job, but - when I sell stuff (as those instruments are - at that time - bloke-owned) - I might venture into the spraying domain...but prefer to spray when it's winter - when the humidity is down, and bugs are dead.
Later, I might tackle that other 345 (repairs forum) that I was trying to finish at the same time I was working on Kevin's...but "life" happened, so it's sitting - about 4/5th done.
I've never done the scotchbrite thing. I figure the customer can do that - if they so choose. It's easy to apply, but requires hours of buffing (and some sacrificing of the instrument) to undo. When I've done my best to smooth out a very-scratched-up instrument, I've chosen to (old-school finish) glass-bead-blast and silver plate it, as that cloaks the scratches completely, and removes far less material than does "buffing the crap out of" deep scratches.
The one that's "sitting" is the one on the left. For years, the bell (which I had cleaned but neglected to put in an old case with the formerly-dented bow parts) sat out in the attic...thus: the somewhat even patination.
Had I been stubborn - and finished both at the same time - Kevin's would have been delayed to the point that he probably would have justifiably become upset.
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:22 pm
I had Beeman do an overhaul (with relacquer) on a cheap Bach 37. Did a nice job. Maybe in 8-30 years, I'll set aside some money to maybe my Holton pretty with a new lacquer finish (still want it to look like my tuba).
Lots of weird stuff on this tuba. The added dogleg in the 3rd circuit, replaced the dogleg after the MTS with straight pipe, added a ferrule after the MTS.
Crazy seeing the bad ends of the tubing (@bloke I don't think my Holton had uneven cuts on the bows like this, did it), impressed to see them making new threads.
Wonder how it plays!
Lots of weird stuff on this tuba. The added dogleg in the 3rd circuit, replaced the dogleg after the MTS with straight pipe, added a ferrule after the MTS.
Crazy seeing the bad ends of the tubing (@bloke I don't think my Holton had uneven cuts on the bows like this, did it), impressed to see them making new threads.
Wonder how it plays!
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 6:57 pm
I noticed the dogleg, and wondered if it was because one of the #3 circuit bows was trashed, and (??) the dogleg is to line up with an available manufactured bow width (which is a good solution).
Back when these tubas were made the top male threads on most tuba pistons were made (very thin) separate from the casings, slipped over a very narrow top, and soldered in place. I've harvested quite a few of those, in order to replace crapped out ones with nice ones.
Recently, a couple of 4-valve Kings (which Mrs. bloke and I referred to as "the pliers tubas" featured some really messed up stuff (messed up just this last year, because we saw them the previous year, and - at that time - only needed some dent-removal and soldering).
I pulled some good sharp male thread rings from some otherwise-worn King sousaphone casings, and transplanted them to those tubas.
When I converted a front-action 3-valve York E-flat to a 4-valve (ok...5-valve) the casing that I found was completely compatible, but from an old York stencil sousaphone...but the casings were extended up higher on the sousaphone. I cut the casing down to match the length of the E-flat tuba casings, cut the (new) top in and (having already un-soldered the male thread ring) moved it down in-line with the rest.
This one...which now lives in upstate NY. There aren't many of these (certainly not tricked out) that feature the original mouthpipe tube in the original location.
Back when these tubas were made the top male threads on most tuba pistons were made (very thin) separate from the casings, slipped over a very narrow top, and soldered in place. I've harvested quite a few of those, in order to replace crapped out ones with nice ones.
Recently, a couple of 4-valve Kings (which Mrs. bloke and I referred to as "the pliers tubas" featured some really messed up stuff (messed up just this last year, because we saw them the previous year, and - at that time - only needed some dent-removal and soldering).
I pulled some good sharp male thread rings from some otherwise-worn King sousaphone casings, and transplanted them to those tubas.
When I converted a front-action 3-valve York E-flat to a 4-valve (ok...5-valve) the casing that I found was completely compatible, but from an old York stencil sousaphone...but the casings were extended up higher on the sousaphone. I cut the casing down to match the length of the E-flat tuba casings, cut the (new) top in and (having already un-soldered the male thread ring) moved it down in-line with the rest.
This one...which now lives in upstate NY. There aren't many of these (certainly not tricked out) that feature the original mouthpipe tube in the original location.
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:58 pm
Does someone have dibs on the 4/5 completed Holton?bloke wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:44 am #3-to-upper-bow braces look to be quite long - as they were with @tubaing's (old repair: Conn-flanges substitute) braces on his instrument, before I (did my best to) straighten it all out.
I tend to suspect that "how far the top of the valve section hung/hangs out away from the instrument" had/has just as much (more?) to do which "who originally assembled it at the factory", as it did/does with "how it was stuck back together later, after having been abused".
It doesn't take much of a variance in the angle of the dogleg (heading from the bugle down to the main slide) to really alter this geometry.
posted on this site's repairs forum by Kevin:
It was sorta fun working on Kevin's. I don't buff/lacquer customers' tubas (as the quality of my spraying work can tend to vary (from unexpectedly-amazing to [to me] upsetting)...and I don't want a customer to be upset with that final aspect of a job, but - when I sell stuff (as those instruments are - at that time - bloke-owned) - I might venture into the spraying domain...but prefer to spray when it's winter - when the humidity is down, and bugs are dead.
Later, I might tackle that other 345 (repairs forum) that I was trying to finish at the same time I was working on Kevin's...but "life" happened, so it's sitting - about 4/5th done.
I've never done the scotchbrite thing. I figure the customer can do that - if they so choose. It's easy to apply, but requires hours of buffing (and some sacrificing of the instrument) to undo. When I've done my best to smooth out a very-scratched-up instrument, I've chosen to (old-school finish) glass-bead-blast and silver plate it, as that cloaks the scratches completely, and removes far less material than does "buffing the crap out of" deep scratches.
The one that's "sitting" is the one on the left. For years, the bell (which I had cleaned but neglected to put in an old case with the formerly-dented bow parts) sat out in the attic...thus: the somewhat even patination.
Had I been stubborn - and finished both at the same time - Kevin's would have been delayed to the point that he probably would have justifiably become upset.
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:39 pm
No. I would like to turn it into money, unless I like it too much.
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:47 pm
If it’s not staying in your stable, but you think I’d like it, let me know.
If you like it too much, that’s fine. When it starts collecting dust, call me first, and I’ll let you know if circumstances are such that I am able to come pick it up.
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:48 pm
I'd probably sell it to you even if I didn't want to, if that meant that you would come and visit.
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:07 pm
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2023 9:51 am
Two ways to bring down the “profile” on those 345s -
1. Add a dogleg to the 4th valve tubing where it comes up from the bottom crook, before it makes the last bend around the valves
2. (more radical) place the third/fourth branches on the back of the horn, as opposed to the front.
Maybe unacceptable aesthetically for a museum-purist restoration, but perfectly acceptable/effective for a horn that is going to be played regularly.
1. Add a dogleg to the 4th valve tubing where it comes up from the bottom crook, before it makes the last bend around the valves
2. (more radical) place the third/fourth branches on the back of the horn, as opposed to the front.
Maybe unacceptable aesthetically for a museum-purist restoration, but perfectly acceptable/effective for a horn that is going to be played regularly.
Re: Another 345 restoration
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:20 pm
I haven't tried it on a huge tuba, but possibly another way is to see if it's possible to run the fourth valve like I did on the compact Holton or on a Miraphone 98.