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I'm not sure if the C and B-flat versions of the Holton model 345 bells were the same or not (I tend to suspect that they were/are), but - as far as the B-flat version is concerned - the Miraphone 98 bell length/contour/diameters are remarkably similar - top-to-bottom.

I wouldn't expect them to be inexpensive, but - if there's interest in replacement 345 bells (at a not-inexpensive price), I'm willing to open up a dialog with Miraphone regarding these bells, and even to discover if they might be willing to manufacture them with a rim (rather than a kranz/garland).

Shipping defines large expensive things as even more expensive - and shipping large/fragile/expensive things is risky, so I'd probably only be interested in looking into this were there a good bit of interest (perhaps three or more...??, and - hopefully - people who were willing to travel to HERE to pick them up).

Do you think one of these would fit on a Martin Mammoth?

LargeTuba wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:00 pm Do you think one of these would fit on a Martin Mammoth?

I'm thinking that the large side of the bottom bow on a Martin is

Having put a Holton 340/345 bell on a Mammoth Martin:

A) Yes it does fit.

B) You do have to trim the small end of the bell to fit the larger (than Holton) bottom bow.

It looks like this:
(Front action is Holton bell on Martin Mammoth bugle, top action is USN (D.C. band) Martin Mammoth with original Martin bell, cat is, well, a cat)
You can see the Holton bell makes the front action horn a little taller, but it isn’t much.

alrighty then...19 inch circumference at the entrance point, rhen?

Right about that. With a cloth sewing tape measure, running right above the ferrule, I get 19 1/4”.

Yeah 19 and a 4th means that you probably have to cut the bell (in order to keep the bell from banging against the bottom bow inside the connector).

I guess I was taking the question - about whether it fits - too literally, but I don't like to tell somebody that something's going to fit, and then it doesn't really fit. What is the bell rim diameter on an original upright bell Martin?

fit: I was/am also referring to the model 345 bell contour, and not just that the 98 bell probably plugs into a Holton bow...so (likely) SONIC characteristics - above-and-beyond frankenability.

I'm not disagreeing. That Holton bell does fit (physically) with a bit of trimming, the Martin bow which I think is what someone above sort of asked. Before I put it on that front action horn (which, for the record, no longer has the #4 tubing held in place with that zip tie), I slid it into the original Martin bell and the two were virtually identical in profiles. Both have 20" diameters.

On the 'other' board, Paul Scott posted about having a Miraphone Fafner bell cut to fit the detachable bell tenon for one of his Martin Mammoths. He seemed to like it even better than an original factory detachable upright bell.

Since the Martin and Holton 6/4 bells look about identical to my eye and the Holton and Miraphone look likewise to your eye, I'd say that is some good info to keep in mind. A=B=C

"frankenability"

The Fafner is a Meinl-Weston 195. Is that what you meant? I think it uses the same bell (but with a longer stack) as the 2165, which was modeled in a Holton. Bloke can confirm if that’s true, but that’s my memory of it.

Rick “whose 345 bell is not in need of replacement” Denney

Interested in at least one if possible

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:20 am The Fafner is a Meinl-Weston 195. Is that what you meant? I think it uses the same bell (but with a longer stack) as the 2165, which was modeled in a Holton. Bloke can confirm if that’s true, but that’s my memory of it.

Rick “whose 345 bell is not in need of replacement” Denney

Oh yeah...

Paul Scott's post:
http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php ... er#p451183

2165 bells are remarkably close to 345 bells in dimensions...

The instruments themselves differ greatly as the 345 is a four loop instrument, whereas the 2165/2265/6450 instruments are three loop tubas.

Most of the sixth quarter piston valve instruments made these days are four loop instruments.

Getting back to the bells, I think the 2165 bell small end is ever so subtly smaller than a 345 bell small end.