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Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:39 pm
by jtm
Some tubas have valve sections where the size of the tubing increases from one end to the other, to avoid a long stretch of cylindrical tubing when valves are used. Some of these tubas are even well regarded.

Has anyone bothered to do this with euphoniums or flugelhorns? If so, were they good?

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:59 pm
by UncleBeer
jtm wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:39 pm Some tubas have valve sections where the size of the tubing increases from one end to the other, to avoid a long stretch of cylindrical tubing when valves are used. Some of these tubas are even well regarded.

Has anyone bothered to do this with euphoniums or flugelhorns? If so, were they good?
Valve loops will always be cylindrical. You still add a long stretch of straight pipe when you add a valve loop.

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 4:03 pm
by matt g
There are those weird “TruBore” “Constant Bore” instruments from Couturier that are tapered through the valve tubing, with no adjustment slides, and the valve bore is tapered. But, now the bugle is seeing differing rates of taper which probably causes as many problems as it solves.

Correcting myself…

https://www.rjmartz.com/horns/Couturier_056/

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 4:07 pm
by jtm
UncleBeer wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:59 pm Valve loops will always be cylindrical. You still add a long stretch of straight pipe when you add a valve loop.
Yes. Sorry, I should have said “avoid an even longer stretch of cylindrical tubing when multiple valves are used.”

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 4:19 pm
by UncleBeer
jtm wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 4:07 pm
UncleBeer wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:59 pm Valve loops will always be cylindrical. You still add a long stretch of straight pipe when you add a valve loop.
Yes. Sorry, I should have said “avoid an even longer stretch of cylindrical tubing when multiple valves are used.”
When you depress the 4th valve alone, you've just added around 5 feet of straight tubing. Straight tubing.

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 4:56 pm
by UncleBeer
matt g wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 4:03 pm There are those weird “TruBore” “Constant Bore” instruments from Couturier that are tapered through the valve tubing, with no adjustment slides, and the valve bore is tapered. But, now the bugle is seeing differing rates of taper which probably causes as many problems as it solves.

Correcting myself…

https://www.rjmartz.com/horns/Couturier_056/
That horn sure seems to have a whole lotta straight pipe for a "constant taper" instrument. Perhaps it's a nuance which is beyond me.


Couturier4.jpg
Couturier4.jpg (97.99 KiB) Viewed 1467 times

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:03 pm
by jtm
I guess this is my punishment for adding a few words of context for anyone who wandered into this thread without knowing the term “conical valve section”.

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:07 pm
by LeMark
I bought a miraphone rotor euphonium once, and every valve was a different bore size

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:16 pm
by jtm
LeMark wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:07 pm I bought a miraphone rotor euphonium once, and every valve was a different bore size
Was it well behaved? Or did that mess up the tuning? Or are rotor euphoniums usually a tuning mess anyway, so you couldn’t tell?

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:21 pm
by UncleBeer
jtm wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:16 pm
LeMark wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:07 pm I bought a miraphone rotor euphonium once, and every valve was a different bore size
Was it well behaved? Or did that mess up the tuning? Or are rotor euphoniums usually a tuning mess anyway, so you couldn’t tell?
It wouldn't be the tuning which would be screwed up, but the overall resonance and efficiency because of "early reflections". Not optimal.

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:22 pm
by donn
jtm wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:39 pm Has anyone bothered to do this with euphoniums or flugelhorns? If so, were they good?
Yes, Couturier made a whole line of brass instruments, including a euphonium.
Image

Were they good? Not good enough, I guess.

Re: Conical valve sections

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:25 pm
by LeMark
I thought it was a good euphonium, but the low range stank, ironically enough

This was after I removed the 4th valve for a different project