Tubas, euphoniums, mouthpieces, and anything music-related.
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Hi! I thought I would toss this out in case anyone had thoughts. I'm sure there are thoughts! :-D
I have an Eastman Eb tuba (EBE853) that I love playing.
I'm in the following mouthpiece situation:
Sellmansberger Imperial w/ #2 rim: the most fun and easiest to play, but the stainless-steel resonance makes it seem not super blendy for quintet work, etc. (feel free to tell me I'm crazy!)
Sellmansberg II: a great sound and supports the quintet well, but a bit more dark than I'd like for some things
Lastkey 30F: I like the sound in general but that rim makes it harder for me to play than seems necessary
Sellmansberger Symphony one-piece: I want to love this but it seems dull to me no matter what I do so far (but I'm keeping it for "the future"!)
My question is -- does anyone know of a mouthpiece that I could try that marries the overall tone/feel/ease of playing of the Imperial with the resonances of brass (instead of stainless) -- perhaps more like the 30F -- and that can make my lunch, water my lawn, and feed my dogs? (okay the last part is optional)
Thanks for any insights that anyone in my situation might have! The answer might very well be "just practice more" :-D
A really inexpensive option you might try is to get a Delrin cup extender for the Imperial. I love using one with my Imperial cup on my Eb. I feel like it adds just a bit of depth to the sound and makes it a bit more suitable for ensemble work.
These users thanked the author arpthark for the post:
arpthark wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:25 pm
A really inexpensive option you might try is to get a Delrin cup extender for the Imperial. I love using one with my Imperial cup on my Eb. I feel like it adds just a bit of depth to the sound and makes it a bit more suitable for ensemble work.
Ahh, thank you! -- I do have one of those extenders from Joe. I'll try it in this application.
Upon re-reading my own post it might seem like I'm being critical of Joe's excellent mouthpieces but I'm really not trying to be! They are incredibly comfortable and playable and I use them a lot ... I'm just sorta trying to "adjust" the sound a little bit. A brass Imperial would be an instant-buy for me.
I would agree that a Symphony cup is probably not the best choice for most E-flat tubas.
If I'm trying to get a big round sound on an E-flat tuba, I would probably use the Imperial ser-up with that 3mm wide cup depth extension, or one of the three millimeter taller rims. Otherwise, the Imperial is a nice middle of the road mouthpiece that works with E-flat tubas where people are just letting them be E-flat tubas. It's also pretty good for people who are trying to make their F tuba sound more like an E-flat or sounding like one of those more diffuse sounding F tubas, or even sounding like a contrabass tuba. I also have personally found that it tends to (with a 3mm taller rim or 3mm cup extender ring) clarify the resonance of some of the models of large contrabass tubas which tend to offer a sound that may be difficult to hear out front - because their natural resonance is so deep and dark. (Amongst those models, I might include the PT6-P.)
I can't offer any help regarding the brass vs. stainless steel thing, because I just don't believe that mouthpieces vibrate, but you're also not going to get any argument out of me, because I don't think that argument/discussion goes anywhere. In other words, I don't pretend to know anything about mouthpieces - other than when I stumble across an interior shape that I like, but I'm also not going to be dishonest, nod my head in disingenuous agreement, and offer them different types of metal in all my shapes and sizes - because they believe that makes a difference. I guess I'm not very good at sales/marketing, and too blunt/undiplomatic about what I believe to be true.
If (??) you are willing to consider the possibility that mouthpieces don't vibrate (and that's up to you... and if you're not, you're certainly not alone) I will tell you that I used to think that different rim contours made no difference in the type of sound, but - having access to so many different interchangeable rims - I've learned that they absolutely do... and even a different mouth-opening diameter - with an identical rim contour - changes the sound. Notice that I'm not making up quasi-scientific gobbledygook regarding the physics of how they change the sound, but I'm just stating that I now know that they do change the sound, because I hear it.
Mark,
Going back and forth like that its basically changing the rim contour and - depending on which back-bone- the throat opening and exit bore. Those cups aren't exactly the same, but they're not very different.
I have this horn, and like the Laskey 30h for brass band and general band/orchestra use. I bought it used with a Shires 8 (apparently what Eastman used to provide with the horn) which I like for high, chamber or solo use. If I really need a bigger tuba but have to use the 853, a PT88 is the answer.
On my Eastman EBE853 I prefer the Sellmansberger Solo with a Profundo rim. I started played her with the Sellmansberger Imperial, but the Solo offers more clearness and agility in the higher register without losing punch at the low end. For playing in very small settings I sometimes use the Parker Belcanto (with the same Sellmansberger #2 rim as the rest) which I have for my Berlin Valve F.
I use The Berliner Tuba BT-H Helleberg copy on my Miraphone Norwegian Star. (Solo or quintet)
The Tilz Nea M1 also does a good job on that tuba, when it needed a bit more push.
For the B&H Imperial Eb I use a Tilz WH-B1. (for Brassband)
Very intently following this conversation as I have just gotten my Eb project tuba playing.
I currently have a tuba exchange Rose mouthpiece that is basically a larger version of a conn helberg 120. A Blessing 18. And an old modified conn helberg 120. So far, the blessing seems to work the best but I'm not a fan of it. None of them really work well in this horn.
I was leaning towards a laskey 28 or 30 f. But it's hard to spring on one because they cost more than the tuba did.
I would be interested in trying out some pieces from the 20s 30s, same vintage as the tuba.
Interesting to hear what other people are using on similar tubas.
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Meinl Weston 2145 CC
King Symphonic BBb circa 1936ish
Pre H.N.White, Cleveland Eb 1924ish (project)
Conn Sousaphone, fiberglass 1960s? (Project)
Olds Baritone 1960s?
Hoping to find a dirt cheap Flugabone
As much as I hate it, I'm going to do it here too. You'd ask which of the opposites to choose, and I'm going to give you another option.
I use a Denis Wick 1 on my Martin e flat. Partially because it was the only one I could easily find off the shelf with the smaller shank size. But, I actually really like it. I'm probably using two large of a mouthpiece for such a small tuba, but overall it's been a very comfortable and easy to play mouthpiece. Unfortunately, I don't have a small tank to regular shank adapter, so I can't use it in the monster e-flat that's vacationing in my house, but I bet it would do very well in there as well.
I have tried a variety of mouthpieces with my Eb, and I do have my favorites ... but it kind of varies, and - you aren't going to believe this - it has something to do with my chops. The larger mouthpieces can add to the sound, or detract.
I think this discussion should also include the bore size of the tuba, and the era/age of the horn.
The eb horn I'm working on was manufactured around 1920. The bore size is .633 (if I remember correctly, it's been a while since I measured it). Its definitely a small shank size as the blessing 18 is a regular american shank and sticks out about 5/8 inch further than it should.
I think eventually I'm going to open up the shank. unless I can find a period appropriate mp, or a smaller mp (Bach 24aw?) That I can modify for cheap. I mean, the modern ones that people are mentioning cost 2x + what the horn is worth.... I'm el cheapo. Sorry.
Sent from my SM-S367VL using Tapatalk
Meinl Weston 2145 CC
King Symphonic BBb circa 1936ish
Pre H.N.White, Cleveland Eb 1924ish (project)
Conn Sousaphone, fiberglass 1960s? (Project)
Olds Baritone 1960s?
Hoping to find a dirt cheap Flugabone
arpthark wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:25 pm
A really inexpensive option you might try is to get a Delrin cup extender for the Imperial. I love using one with my Imperial cup on my Eb. I feel like it adds just a bit of depth to the sound and makes it a bit more suitable for ensemble work.
Ahh, thank you! -- I do have one of those extenders from Joe. I'll try it in this application.
Upon re-reading my own post it might seem like I'm being critical of Joe's excellent mouthpieces but I'm really not trying to be! They are incredibly comfortable and playable and I use them a lot ... I'm just sorta trying to "adjust" the sound a little bit. A brass Imperial would be an instant-buy for me.
When I played an Imperial, I did the same thing and also had a positive result with greater depth of tone without sacrificing playability.
...with a song in my heart!
