Tuning slide position

[Mary Ann]

My friend who has an NStar was over here last night and we were working out some brass band music -- we're the Eb tubas. His is older than mine, maybe by about six years, and is lacquer while mine is silver. He bought his new, I bought mine used. They look the same except his leadpipe angle appears to be a bit different from mine, and we have no idea why. We play in tune with each other and our sounds are reasonably the same. He's a bit better at the low range than I am, and I'm a bit better at the high range than he is, so that's how we split the parts.
However -- mine has a 443 tuning slide which I use, and which is all the way in the vast majority of the time. He has a 440 tuning slide, and it is an inch and a half out the vast majority of the time. I'm trying to figure out if our instruments could possibly actually be different lengths, given the apparent overall difference in "total length" that works for each of us. To me he doesn't "sound like" he's playing at the top of the slot, and to me I don't "sound like" I'm playing at the bottom of the slot, but that would seem to be what is going on.
Curious as to other input. It's nothing important, just my usual curiosity in trying to figure out things I observe.

[jtm]

Have you swapped tubas briefly to see if they're still in tune together when played by the other players?

[Mary Ann]

No but that's a good idea. We've both played both of them separately and found them to feel the same. We did have a friend play both a few weeks ago and his only comment was that he found my friend's a bit easier to play than mine. Why that would be, I have no idea. His has likely seen more use than mine, but I don't know what mine did the four years it lived in Phoenix, in between times I have owned it. I just know the guy who had it was willing to sell it back because he was playing a Besson in the brass band there.

[Sousaswag]

I’d be curious to see some pictures of the two horns side by side. A lot of times I’ve seen two models that are put together slightly differently- braces in different spots, even different leadpipe heights. I wonder what’s going on?

[Mary Ann]

We might do that --- he'll be here again tomorrow night for TE quartet. He keeps thinking they are not the same height but to me they appear the same. The leadpipe angles definitely are slightly different. He would probably be interested in setting them up together and taking pictures.
But I was practicing some band stuff with a bassoon player this afternoon, had my 443 slide all the way in as usual, and we were on pitch together. I suspect I've become a bottom of the slot player, or at least stopped being a top of the slot player. There is also that 4D that I can't get up to pitch no matter what I do.
Jeez it's hard to type when a cat is kneading your right arm pretty forcefully. I should not wear big fuzzy things when I am on the computer.

[Mark]

I'll bet that some of it, maybe a lot of it, is the players.

[Mary Ann]

I’ve never run across two tubas of the same make and model that play in tune using the same exact setup. Similar? Sure. Identical? No.

I’ve also needed to adjust the tuning slide to suit my needs to play with the same intonation as another player. Usually I’d need to push in a tad. After that, slide pulling needs would be pretty similar.

Players’ approach to the airstream matters. Mouthpiece matters. Horn assembly and design matters. Normal distributions are normal and all that.

[bloke]

If one player is picking up heated or chilled air from a vent, that is going to affect overall pitch level as well.

[LeMark]

There is also that 4D that I can't get up to pitch no matter what I do.

Did you try it 1-2?

On my Eb. high F is open, E is 2nd, Eb is 1st, and D is 1-2.

[Mary Ann]

It's below pitch on the open bugle with the slides all the way in.
The whole point was to be able to use Eb tuba fingerings while reading bass clef on horn.
Its only possible use that I can find is as a yard ornament, becuase it also smells so bad that I will not bring it in from the garage. I got taken, not the first time.
So -- for me, I guess done discussing. Not worth my fussing over any more. I don't even feel I should give it to a thrift store because someone else would get stuck with it, not knowing any more than I did, although for FAR less money. And that someone might buy it simply to resell at a much higher price, thereby screwing yet another buyer. I wonder how it would look hanging on the wall on my front porch?

[Three Valves]

It's below pitch on the open bugle with the slides all the way in.
The whole point was to be able to use Eb tuba fingerings while reading bass clef on horn.
Its only possible use that I can find is as a yard ornament, becuase it also smells so bad that I will not bring it in from the garage. I got taken, not the first time.
So -- for me, I guess done discussing. Not worth my fussing over any more. I don't even feel I should give it to a thrift store because someone else would get stuck with it, not knowing any more than I did, although for FAR less money. And that someone might buy it simply to resell at a much higher price, thereby screwing yet another buyer. I wonder how it would look hanging on the wall on my front porch?

Now I'm confused....

You were taken by the same guy that bought it from you, he changed the pitch, stunk it up, then sold it back to you?

[Mary Ann]

This is the Conn 4D ("French") horn that I just bought on the bay, not the NStar.

It has occurred to me that this does fit in with the tuning slide post -- that others may be able to play this up to pitch "as is." Given that I have to have the 443 slide for the Star all the way in while others have their 440 slides an inch out. But it still smells so bad that I won't even bring it in the house. I had a single high F horn for a few years that had that "old brass instrument smell" and I never found a way to get that smell out. Chem cleaned twice, ultra-sounded once, it still smelled. Got rid of it post-dystonia.

Yeah I got taken when I bought back the NStar too, but it was with my knowledge and consent. I wanted that back and am not sorry I got it back, although it's in my will that the guy I sold it to and bought it back from, will not be able to buy it back for any less than the brand new price for one. Karma.

[LeMark]

Had the horn flushed or Chem cleaned?

[Mary Ann]

Not going to put any more money in it.
(in case people are confused -- this has moved from "tuning slide position on the STar" to "overall flatness of the Conn 4D (French) horn I bought on ebay." Thread has wandered a bit.)