Mirror-smooth re-lacquered vintage instruments.
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:09 pm
Over the summer, we repaired a middle school's Selmer USA baritone sax with range to low A.
When these were still made, they were the same as "Bundy" but were re-badged "Selmer, USA" (possibly ?? encouraged to drop "Bundy" - with the appearance of - not only - Ted Bundy, but then Al Bundy - all from the mid-1970's through the mid-1990's).
The low A was achieved by sticking a several-inches-long cylindrical chimney (featuring a tone hole) between the bell and the bottom bow (adding a half tone in range) and then altering some of the bell keys' key work.
The Bundy was actually made from the tooling acquired when Selmer USA bought Buescher, as the (regular low B-flat) version was the same as the old Buescher/Elkhart baritone saxophone (other than - oddly - with the Bundy version - the neck was elongated, which made it awkward to hold/play and the tuning was no better than with the shorter Buescher neck).
This instrument was very shiny, and the band director (who wasn't around when it was purchased) was under the impression that it had been purchased "new" (as it was so smooth and shiny).
At the SAME TIME they handed us the low-A version of the shiny Selmer, USA baritone sax to repair (dents/adjusting/needed pads/etc.) they offered to GIVE us an old brown Buescher "Elkhart" (basically, the same instrument but better-made and shorter neck) baritone sax (with a regular low B-flat bell).
We strongly suggested that they have us bring that brown instrument back from the dead (actually, didn't even need a complete re-pad job) and straighten it out for a few hundred bucks. They shrugged their shoulders, but agreed.
As we removed dents from the shiny later-made low-A Selmer, USA version, we discovered that many of the dented areas were absolutely paper-thin (as if foil)...as it had been through a (and these places devastated instruments) "overhaul shop". We did manage to not bust through any of those super-thin areas, and DID manage to make that shiny/low-A instrument play, but warned them what it was/is that they had/have.
The economy-model Buescher ended up playing beautifully, had never been re-lacquered, and - therefore - is as stout as when new. The "Buescher"-line saxophones featured goofy threaded needle springs (awful to work with) whereas the cheaper "Elkhart" models featured regular (friction fit) needle springs. The school is REALLY LUCKY to have that Buescher/Elkhart, that band director is actually an accomplished sax player (but ignorant re: "Elkhart", and only saw (old/brown/dented/leaky/ugly case).
BTW...The U of Memphis had given us a couple of (not gorgeous, but OK condition) big rectangular wood "low A" Selmer USA baritone sax cases...so we tore out a place in the padding (several inches lower) to accommodate the (B-flat length) Elkhart bell, covered it back over with plush, and handed them a "decent" case for that old brown instrument...only charging them for the time we spent making that donated-to-us case fit their instrument.
the ACTUAL point of this post:
This is why I shy away from vintage instruments (particularly when they are models of which many were sold to schools) which have been beautifully re-lacquered, and show no signs whatsoever of repaired dents or scratches in their surfaces. When all that are available are pictures, I am forced to assume that I'm looking at an instrument with some paper-thin areas (very often, which have been the victims of executioners' files and sandpaper - prior to compassionless buffing)...and (likely) quite-worn pistons or rotors (if a brass instrument), because "overhaul shops" almost NEVER rebuilt valves or - if they did - their valve overhauls were always B.S. (ex: nice-looking nickel plating on pistons which rattle around in their casings, etc.)
When these were still made, they were the same as "Bundy" but were re-badged "Selmer, USA" (possibly ?? encouraged to drop "Bundy" - with the appearance of - not only - Ted Bundy, but then Al Bundy - all from the mid-1970's through the mid-1990's).
The low A was achieved by sticking a several-inches-long cylindrical chimney (featuring a tone hole) between the bell and the bottom bow (adding a half tone in range) and then altering some of the bell keys' key work.
The Bundy was actually made from the tooling acquired when Selmer USA bought Buescher, as the (regular low B-flat) version was the same as the old Buescher/Elkhart baritone saxophone (other than - oddly - with the Bundy version - the neck was elongated, which made it awkward to hold/play and the tuning was no better than with the shorter Buescher neck).
This instrument was very shiny, and the band director (who wasn't around when it was purchased) was under the impression that it had been purchased "new" (as it was so smooth and shiny).
At the SAME TIME they handed us the low-A version of the shiny Selmer, USA baritone sax to repair (dents/adjusting/needed pads/etc.) they offered to GIVE us an old brown Buescher "Elkhart" (basically, the same instrument but better-made and shorter neck) baritone sax (with a regular low B-flat bell).
We strongly suggested that they have us bring that brown instrument back from the dead (actually, didn't even need a complete re-pad job) and straighten it out for a few hundred bucks. They shrugged their shoulders, but agreed.
As we removed dents from the shiny later-made low-A Selmer, USA version, we discovered that many of the dented areas were absolutely paper-thin (as if foil)...as it had been through a (and these places devastated instruments) "overhaul shop". We did manage to not bust through any of those super-thin areas, and DID manage to make that shiny/low-A instrument play, but warned them what it was/is that they had/have.
The economy-model Buescher ended up playing beautifully, had never been re-lacquered, and - therefore - is as stout as when new. The "Buescher"-line saxophones featured goofy threaded needle springs (awful to work with) whereas the cheaper "Elkhart" models featured regular (friction fit) needle springs. The school is REALLY LUCKY to have that Buescher/Elkhart, that band director is actually an accomplished sax player (but ignorant re: "Elkhart", and only saw (old/brown/dented/leaky/ugly case).
BTW...The U of Memphis had given us a couple of (not gorgeous, but OK condition) big rectangular wood "low A" Selmer USA baritone sax cases...so we tore out a place in the padding (several inches lower) to accommodate the (B-flat length) Elkhart bell, covered it back over with plush, and handed them a "decent" case for that old brown instrument...only charging them for the time we spent making that donated-to-us case fit their instrument.
the ACTUAL point of this post:
This is why I shy away from vintage instruments (particularly when they are models of which many were sold to schools) which have been beautifully re-lacquered, and show no signs whatsoever of repaired dents or scratches in their surfaces. When all that are available are pictures, I am forced to assume that I'm looking at an instrument with some paper-thin areas (very often, which have been the victims of executioners' files and sandpaper - prior to compassionless buffing)...and (likely) quite-worn pistons or rotors (if a brass instrument), because "overhaul shops" almost NEVER rebuilt valves or - if they did - their valve overhauls were always B.S. (ex: nice-looking nickel plating on pistons which rattle around in their casings, etc.)