Counterfeiting versus knockoffs versus second line

[bloke]

We all know what knock-offs are. There are things like all of the very recognizable Chinese made copies of American and German models of tubas. Of course the guitar knock-off industry - I'm sure - involves countless millions of instruments, and the saxophone knock-off industry as well..
I'm sure there are far more millions of knock-offs of other things than there are of musical instruments.

My friend, John Schuesselin, headed up to blokeplace yesterday from Ole Miss to pick up a stack of school-owned brass class beginner trumpets and some available-for-studio-lessons-students professional-grade C trumpets - for which he had me do minor servicing and repair.

He also brought up two trumpets that belong to a student. (John had never examined either one of them closely, but had encouraged this student to try to save up and purchase a better trumpet.) One of them looks to be some sort of legitimately-sold Conn-Selmer product made in China. It sort of looks like a Bach Stradivarius, is not marked as such, and has "Bach" in large letters on it (like the model 200 Bundy-like thing), but the rest of it looks like the Stradivarius model - except for the fit, finish, and quality of assembly, which I would rate as about a B.

The other one (which John told me he had never seen before) was a beautiful new-looking counterfeit, which featured engraving on the casings that resembles those of Bach Stradivarius trumpets made decades ago. The build quality is better, but it's pretty easy for someone - who knows what they're looking at - to immediately see that it's a fake. The fonts don't quite match, and other details just aren't quite on target. The counterfeit is not marked "Made in China".

The other (possibly?) Conn-Selmer licensed one is stamped "Made in China" very small at the bottom of the second valve casing.

Is there a point to this post? I don't guess there is. Does every post have to have a point to it?

[arpthark]

At least it wasn't a "Bessons."

[bloke]

The Yamaha 826 is a knockoff of a singular instrument made in USA the better part of a century ago. There's now a Chinese knockoff of the Yamaha, but of course it's not any sort of counterfeit, carries its own legitimate brand name, and it's easy to tell the two apart - even blindfolded.

I guess I'm wondering when and if the Chinese are eventually going to counterfeit some of the more expensive tubas - well enough to where they can't be told apart. The Chinese are already up to that level with some of the very most expensive guitars. I wonder if it's economically feasible for them to try to mess with counterfeiting things such as tubas - that feature so many physical details and playing characteristics. My guess is that they won't.

Guitar-wise, I was shown a pair of Les Paul Custom counterfeit guitars that not only were correct down to every single detail that I checked, but featured serial numbers that are probably real serial numbers, and played absolutely wonderfully.

[BRS]

.

[bloke]

I think CS shot themselves in the foot when they changed from the traditional stamped Bach logo to the cheapo looking machine engraving. It welcomed doubt about their own product.

You are referring to changing from their roller stamp to laser engraving, I'm sure...

The counterfeit that looked new and was silver was neither roller stamped nor laser engraved, but hand engraved. It was very nicely engraved, but didn't match Bach. It was deeply engraved as were the New York instruments, whereas Indiana instruments have been less deeply engraved and less deeply roller stamped.