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Kind of a silly topic -- but I have a Peak stand and find it enough bother to set up and take down that I end up taking a Manhasset. Also the Peak's legs are not conducive to putting your foot on to hold it down if you are outside in the wind.
So is this Hamilton any better? I like that the legs are at an angle much more like the Manhasset. I don't want a stand with holes in the desk because that can look funny on stage.
https://www.dillonmusic.com/hamilton-ha ... d=15438028

KM101 folds down too little more than a footlong by a couple of inches wide, looks nice when put together, looks even nicer if the folder is black - or if the outside of the free giveaway cardboard folder is spray painted flat black, and - if the folder is just too stuffed full of music for a KM101 shelf to support it - I just pull out the tunes that are going to be played and set them on the stand with the folder under my chair.

One of the main differences between most community bands and hired rehearsals and performances is that bandsman are typically required to bring their own stands. I watch everyone - from bent over old men to a little old ladies - carrying their instrument, maybe something else (perhaps a folder), and then having to deal with a stand - from their car to the door. I can't help but think how much simpler things would be for them if they all used KM101 stands. Further, as cities are crime ridden (and I post too much about that, I suppose) the unpacking of the car and getting themselves into the building would take considerably less time - with an ultra-compact-yet-reliable stand that either fits inside an instrument case, or can be suspended from or banded to an instrument case.

As far as outdoors and wind, I consider any of those situations to be past borderline ridiculous, and there is no stand of any weight or design that isn't prone to being blown over.

Nope.

Something I've done in the past - when working with an ensemble with a huge folder - has been to stick an empty medium large paper folder inside the band's giant folder (with the hundred tunes in it). Upon arriving at a rehearsal, I would pull the tunes that were going to be played, put them in the smaller folder (which accommodates 8-1/2 by 11), put the giant folder under my chair, and actually have the smaller folder (with the scheduled tunes in it) on my 101.

This tack prevents HVAC or gentle outdoor breezes from blowing individual sheets off of a stand.

There's no way in the world I'm ever going to do another gig with a wire stand. Period, over and out. I've experienced and seen more music in spit puddles from wire stands that I never need to do that again. It doesn't matter if the stand has one sheet or a hundred on it--they are top-heavy, unstable, and they cannot be stabilized with a foot. They also look cheap on stage.

I'm mostly using an ipad stand these days, which is only a little larger folded up but which has legs that form a much wider base and can be stabilized with a foot. Even when we rehearse where there are already music stands, I prefer this stand.

My second choice is the Peak, and yes it is fiddly, but what makes it fiddly is that the desk folds up while still providing a solid desk when unfolded.

Thank goodness I do not live or play music in places where I feel compelled to complain about crime every 5.4 minutes in every human utterance. But I do live where I am expected to park my car, and carry everything I need to the music-making place in one trip. A standard Manhasset stand is incompatible with that requirement, as seems to me generally agreed. The folding legs with a wide stance is actually more stable than the stamped-steel stand of a Manhasset, which works for the same reason microphone stands work--it is heavy. Manhasset makes stands with folding legs and a removable solid desk, which helps, and the Hamilton MA pictured seems to be of that ilk. I haven't inspected one up close to have an opinion on it. I have a stand with a solid desk and a collapsible center column and folding legs, but it's enough harder to carry than the Peak that I don't use it much. The Peak lives in the car, just like a spare mouthpiece.

I recently played in a quintet gig where I carried my ipad stand and rolled two tubas in hard cases that had wheels four blocks from where I parked to the venue. A stand with a solid desk would have been a pain in that situation. The big advantage to the Peak is that it comes in a case with a long enough handle to drape it over whatever else that hand is also having to grasp. The ipad stand likewise.

Rick "hates wire stands no matter how well-made they are supposed to be" Denney

There's no way that I will ever talk (a plurality of) community bandsmen into wire stands, and no way that most working musicians would be willing to drag along bulky stands.

I don't see any "reasons" (listed above) that don't pertain to "most any" stand, but whatever.

I just don't get the "top-heavy" argument, as (specifically, KM101) wire stands are not this...and (again) I don't place overloaded folders - (such as "band folder" - with 40-to-100 (vs. "the three works programmed") being in the folder - on ANY stand . Even "pops" concerts rarely feature more than 15-or-so numbers (yet - well... - there are stands always provided).

nursing home/outreach brass quintet jobs:
The player (who's paid extra to bring the music) passes it out, I put them in order, stick them under my chair, put them on the stand - one-at-a-time - play them, pull up the next one, and place the subsequent one back on the floor ("pile-of-music-#2"). If outdoors, I use those see-through clips (Tablets are too small - if anywhere close to affordable, are theft targets, are fragile, and - still - too heavy...and - until orchestras issue them - and big-ass ones - I ain't buyin' one...I have a LAPTOP - that does more than a tablet, and it stays at home as well.)

Somehow, I suspect too many people have experience with "crappy" (and whether wire, bulky/impractical-talkapart, or (car-interior-damaging / meant-to-stay-at-the-venue) stands.

KM101 is elegant/excellent/reliable (as are my instruments).

I suspect that one issue may be "I think this stand is safe enough to hold my one-level-of-technology-too-far tablet", with some people...and I'm just not going to allow myself to be sucked into the "tablet borg".

orchestra librarian:
"We encourage the use of tablets."
me:
"I'll consider using one, if its big, you supply it, you don't blame me if it's stolen or if you forgot to charge the battery."

Thankfully (regarding "music stand preferences"), I'm not "you" (plural/collective), and "you"-'re not me.

We all have (or create) reasons for our choices.

→I DO keep an emergency/curb-treasure/probably-was-free-to-me crappy USA/Chinese wire stand in EACH of my vehicles, and I would recommend this tack to anyone who owns multiple vehicles. My "emergency" crappy wire stands resemble these, and - perhaps - were picked up at yard sales or thrift stores for c. $1: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41s ... L1000_.jpg



These (KM101) are typically offered for c. $20, and mine is (duh) black, and not chrome, and built in Germany.




bloke "I'm not responding to Mary Ann nor Rick. They've made their decisions. (All of these threads are public.) My rhetoric/info is for 'Everyman'."

I use the Manhasset Voyager and it works fine. When set up, it looks and works just like the regular Manhasset stand. It is lighter than the regular Manhasset and packs into a carry bag that is easy to lug around.

I do think that any large ensemble you are playing with should provide good stands, chairs, etc. Unfortunately, you can't count on that these days.

I almost never need a stand, but - quintet runouts - we supply our own stands, unless they are outdoors (for hundreds) or some "school" thing.

It burns a ton of extra gas for someone in management to drive their OWN car (often an hour from their office) bring five stands, hang around until we're done, and take them back to the office...so (for those - specifically) we bring (wire) stands.

My German-made 13' x 3²" stand (pictured above...It stays under the driver's seat of my car...just about impossible to forget (since I KEEP it in the car) and (again) crappy wire stands (under the drivers' seats) of all the other cars.

' no way do I want something like this (even disassembled) in my car all the time, nor crapping up my already-cluttered house (and being forgotten, half the time).





For the SAME REASON that I don't want some bulky (not-particularly) "portable" stand (which I'll need to REMEMBER to pack for specific venues/engagements), I NEVER want ANY gigmeister to friggin' GIVE ME THE FOLDER OF MUSIC prior to the gig/first rehearsal, because there's a pretty good chance I won't remember to load it - 'cause it ain't mine. I'll either read it, or they can send me pdf's (or crappy phone pics) of the busier tunes.

bloke is a fool.
THESE are foolproof:
- ALWAYS having my excellent German-made stand under my driver seat.
- NEVER accepting their hard copies of their gig music.

.

Back when I was in youth band, we had a 2" ring folder with about 70 pieces (each page put in brochure covers) plus a small book of standard German marches https://www.blasmusik-shop.de/Das-grosse-Marschbuch tucked in a small pouch that was on the inside of that folder. The whole setup weighs a ton.

Standing and seated gigs both outside and inside were and still are the norm with that band, so are extensive concert tours on international field trips.
I bought my K&M 107 for exactly THAT purpose when I was 17, which is 36 years ago.
I still use that very stand to this day, and it has endured long years of abuse, including being hurled (!) into the tour bus´ storage compartment from a distance.

Back then (left the band upon turning 25 years old, as is the rule),CHEAP wire stands were the norm.
By the time my nephew joined that same band a generation later, ALL members had those K&M107 stands and a K&M 10711 quiver-like pouch to carry it over the shoulder, because those won´t fit in a generic instrument case.

That includes the cliché petite 13-year-old flautist girl who might hold on to that stand to not be blown off stage.

In all bands I played in all you see is wire stands. I have a K&M 100/1 myself, doesn't fold as small as the 101, but is a bit more stable

peterbas wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:23 am I only use K&M stands with a proper hinge like this



so no more skin pinching or collapse half through a piece.

Then I stick it in a pilot case with al the sheet music and other stuff.


or this one for the really lazy one's.

How do you manage the rolling case (or even one that requires a hand) if you are bringing two instruments, each in their own rolling cases?

Rick "who travels all the time and learned long ago that the correct number of rolling cases for any excursion is usually 1" Denney

As wire stands go, the K&M is easily the most robust and has the best design. But you already know my opinion of wire stands.

The Peak stand folds up and stores in a bag that is 4" wide by 4" deep by maybe 20" long (estimating from memory), which is bigger than a folded wire stand but not by all that much.





The ipad stand that I use is as compact as a folded wire stand and as easy to carry. But it holds an iPad Pro reliably, which a conventional ledge-desk will not. The stand is made by Air-Turn, who also make foot-operated page turners for Forscore.



The iPad holder and the stand connect via a conventional microphone thread, so the tablet holder can be used on a regular mic stand.

This is awesome for outdoor gigs, especially if you extend the legs out to near flat and throw a sandbag (or place a foot) on one of them. The page turner is a little puck that I wear on a finger like a ring, or stick to the back of the instrument on a little adhesive Velcro pad.

This stand stays in the car, too. I use a regular Manhasset stand at home where I can control the environment.

I know that some blokes don't want to buy or own an iPad, but I gotta say that it's a lot easier to haul around an iPad than it is to haul around a quintet folder with 400 pages in it. I never realized how much time I was spending dealing with sheet music. I can set up a set list in a minute, and choose a different tune in the set list in three seconds. Don't need a pencil--my finger will make annotations. The only danger is a dead battery, but that's really no more hassle than making sure I have the correct music in hand.

Rick "remembering having to carry a tuba plus stands loaded with a book that had a hundred tunes in it for 8 outdoor theme-park sets a day" Denney

all these large accessories...

It would be easy to accuse me of bringing too many instruments to engagements in order to use them on specific pieces (which are enhanced by their specific use, in my opinion)...guilty as charged... but my secret weapon is usually stage door parking and - well - a stage door.
With nursing home jobs and my wire stand, they usually have an awning or something, but they don't want me parking there; I have to walk up. I usually have one instrument and a KM101 wire stand (maybe even held in the same hand that's pulling the case along). ...The music - or folder - is brought by someone else.

I'm starting to wonder if people who talk about sizing their instruments down might just need to size down their gear...(??)

What about these Veterans Day/Memorial Day outdoor jobs - that many of you play - where you are playing at some sort of military cemetery? Aren't you parking off somewhere in a field (that's not yet planted with graves), and walking something like a fourth of a mile (etc.) back to wherever the ceremony is being held?
-----
' other individuals' business, and not mine, but I know what I do.

The iPad fits in a pocket of my tuba case (or even in the hard case you included with the 184), and the stand that holds it is really no bulkier or heavier than that K&M wire stand you use. Even the Peak stand is only a little bulkier but no heavier, and it provides a solid desk and will support a three-ring binder full of music.

Rick "but you knew that" Denney

You and I are on the same page, except I have moved over to heavier cases, and I'm not willing to move over to a tablet to read music, at this time. (I personally weigh the nuisances of paper vs. electronics to be about equal. Later, I may "see the light", if you will accept my pun. One of my freeway philharmonics just moved over to really nice battery-operated LED stand lights, and guess what? The issue is that they need recharging, and sometimes fail during rehearsals. The staff has added an additional chore to their long list of chores, which is to make sure that the stand lights all are charged up for the rehearsals and the shows...and - thoughI'm sure you don't agree - this is what I mean by "a technology too far"... with 100% electric cars being the most ridiculous example, currently.)

I've always thought that I really ought to use cases (instead of even the best bags - which I have), but the acquisition of the Miraphone 98, along with continued through-the-bag denting of my F tuba - convinced me to just go ahead and hang the bags up overhead in the master bathroom (where they're available and clean - yet out of the way), and just move over to hard cases. Both of those instruments are handmade and only a half millimeter thick sheet metal. They dent just about as readily as merely saying the word "dent" while looking at them. (In the Jakob Winter case for the 98, I had been storing one of those little 8-in long cordura Miraphone accessory bags next to the bell flare (no other place available). A couple of days ago, I noticed two odd linear dents in the bell flare, and realized that the piping on that bag had dented the instrument.

With all the other instruments being only 20% thicker sheet metal, they deserve the protection of hard cases as well.

.

peterbas wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:33 am Easy, some velcro around the handles and you can push the tuba case and pull the pilot case.
...

Have you ever actually done that? I can't imagine trying to steer a forward-pointing case with another case preventing me from making the necessary lateral movements to steer the thing, especially over uneven surfaces.

I usually carry my big tuba over my shoulder as well, but both of my smaller tubas live in wheeled hard cases. I'm getting older and schlepping at large kaiser-sized Bb over my shoulder is not getting any easier.

I may not be swayed by Bloke's choice of portable stand, but I am swayed by his commitment to hard cases, and I would use them if I could find them with a practical design that actually fit the tuba efficiently and didn't weigh 50 pounds empty.

(As everyone knows, I just sold a VMI 3301 in a hard case, and that case reminded me of what I don't like about most hard cases: they are heavy, weak, fragile, poorly made, and far too bulky for the instrument they are carrying. Other than that, they are just fine :) The vintage lightweight wooden case that Joe included with my 184 fits the instrument well, but because the instrument is so small, even an inefficiently large case is manageable. I put wheels on it (properly) and the proper handles to use them effectively. The plastic case my Yamaha came in isn't durable enough for most things but it's fine for schlepping the tuba to gigs. But the tuba it holds is tiny. The typical Winter case for my Hirsbrunner, not that Winter makes one, would be about the size and weight of a 1962 Cadillac. Just last week I discovered the Kariso cases, which I think are appropriately designed for big tubas. When I'm feeling a bit more flush I will be making enquiries.)

Rick "puts more miles dragging luggage through airports in a year than most people in a lifetime" Denney

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:15 am

These (KM101) are typically offered for c. $20, and mine is (duh) black, and not chrome, and built in Germany.




bloke "I'm not responding to Mary Ann nor Rick. They've made their decisions. (All of these threads are public.) My rhetoric/info is for 'Everyman'."

I am having PTSD flare ups just thinking of this type of stand.

My most important criteria is that a stand is sturdy enough to hold the cup holder for your beer.



At least at my gigs.

If you need a cup holder, may I recommend Swirlygig!