Kanstul marching brass

[bloke]

Of course, the company is shuttered, but I've - bit by bit - been repairing a bunch of instruments for a high school whereby a very capable new band director is rebuilding the program. As the band increases in size, I'm repairing more of its large inventory of instruments for the growing program. (You saw the two old fiberglass Jupiter sousaphones a couple of days ago, and etc., etc., etc...)

Some band director in the past was obviously sold on Kanstul marching brass, as the school owns a few of several types (mellophones, [now: mostly obsolete] marching French horns, and marching baritones). I remember when the Kanstul marching brass first hit the market (originally G instruments) and made a big splash, but I never saw any of them (neither the G stuff nor the B-flat / F stuff) - so I didn't know anything about them. The first one that I repaired for this school was a mellophone, and - prior to repairing-then-playing that instrument - I always viewed King as making the best mellophones, but I have to say that that Kanstul mellophone outplays King.

Today, I put back together a previously pulled apart Kanstul marching baritone; it's one of those with a thumb ring to tune any note (which I consider to be a good feature, but I doubt if many students ever used the feature on the various makes that offered it). That issue aside, once I had that instrument all back together and doing what it was supposed to do, I was really impressed with it as well. FWIW, the mouth pipe featured a standard shank receiver. The lower range is a little bit more sparkly than several of the other makes which are currently out there, (certainly more so than Yamaha, and - repair-wise - I'm pretty tired of messing with Yamaha marching baritone valves and their guides).

I was never a particular fan of and of the Kanstul concert instruments - whether they were any of the various tubas or trombones or those Benge-like "French Besson" trumpets or even the compensating euphoniums, but to each his own.

I have to say that these marching brass instruments - which I've finally encountered - play exceptionally well.

[arpthark]

A local high school uses/used Kanstul marching euphoniums. Compared to marching baritones, they seem huge.

[bloke]

A local high school uses/used Kanstul marching euphoniums. Compared to marching baritones, they seem huge.

Yeah. There's a nationally ranked (re: marching) local high school that uses King marching euphoniums. I've got them all in good shape currently, but the (grey plastic rectangular) cases are aging out. Over the holidays, I don't have any of those instruments here to repair, but actually two of the cases. LOL

They use a mixture of those and JP marching baritones. And bit by bit their oldest funkiest sousaphones are being replaced by JP.

[Schlitzz]

I own one of the Kanstul contrabass trombones in F. A lot of valve linkages, paddles, and springs, aren’t original equipment. But it’s still a solid player. I have favored the bass trombones, particularly the single valve ones. But ergonomics wise, I’ve found better Bachs.

[gocsick]

I would love to get my hands on a Kanstul G 3 valve baritone bugle (model 190).. they are just rare and expensive for something that would basiclaly be a basement toy.

All of their marching brass was top notch.

Zig's son put out some videos detailing the evolution of the modern marching mellophone from the Kanstul G to the King 1120.

[Casca Grossa]

I own one of their 3/4 contras. Nice playing instrument.

[bloke]

I own one of their 3/4 contras. Nice playing instrument.

I encountered a small C tuba of theirs once that (supposedly) copied the taper of a trumpet.
It wasn't a bad instrument, and a far sight better than the YCB-621.

[DonO.]

I own their 3/4 size BBb 3 valve. I think very highly of it. I use it in situations when I know space will be cramped. Good quality construction, nice tone for its size. Only two things I dislike about it are 1. It’s quite the water collector 2. I miss having a fourth valve. I actually like it well enough that I have ordered a Cronkhite bag for it so I can tote it around without the unreasonably heavy wheel-less wood case. It was intended as a student horn but it has a .689 bore! My main squeeze is still my King 2341, but my Kanstul has its uses. Perfect for TubaChristmas!

[donn]

1. It’s quite the water collector

I haven't really mastered getting the water out of my Eb, but somewhat by accident noticed a couple weeks ago that if I remove the 3rd valve piston, a lot of water will come right out there. Maybe a somewhat drastic remedy, even compared to the other things I've tried. Especially as the valve caps are kind of fiddly.

[Finetales]

Marching brass was Kanstul's bread and butter. Zig was making G bugles before the company Kanstul started, and once Kanstul started with those they branched out to Bb/F marching brass. The concert stuff came later, but marching instruments was where Zig really shined. Kanstul's 3-valve G bugles (they never did 2-valve horns except for the Commandant's Own) are all the best models there are...not that there was much competition by then.

Yes, the Kanstul mellophones are excellent. I have owned 2 Kanstul altos (mellophone with a much smaller bell) - an early-pattern G alto bugle (KAB-175) and a late-pattern F marching alto (KMA-275). The F alto in particular puts every other mellophone I've played to shame regarding ergonomics - my Yamaha 204MS, King 1121, or King 1120 are nowhere near as comfortable to hold. AND, the thumb ring is the "tune any note" thing (aka main tuning kicker in non-Kanstul speak), which is SO nice to have.

Meanwhile, the earlier horns ('90s), like my G alto bugle, looked pretty much like a King 1120. And in fact Zig designed the 1120 for King using the same design he first used with the King K-50 2-valve G mellophone bugle, then the early Kanstul mellophones and altos (in both G and F), and finally the 1120. That G alto bugle is one of the best brass instruments ever played, and the only instrument I regret selling. I'd love to have it back.

It's good to hear that the Kanstul Bb marching baritone is a good player, I've been curious about those. I can probably find one of those cheaper than a Yamaha if I ever feel the need to upgrade from my Blessing M-300.

If your Kanstul-having high school client ever replaces the Kanstuls and wants to sell them off...I'm sure there would be something I'd be interested in. I'm still looking for the Bb marching horn (KMH-285), high F marching horn (KMH-284), F and G mellophones (KMM-180/KMB-280; early or late pattern...or both), G soprano bugle (KSB-100/101), 4-valve alto horn (ZAT-1540), and F contrabass trombone (1690) for can't-refuse prices. And I'm also still searching for evidence that Kanstul ever made an F marching alto in the early pattern.

I would love to get my hands on a Kanstul G 3 valve baritone bugle (model 190).. they are just rare and expensive for something that would basiclaly be a basement toy.

I've owned a KBB-190. Great instrument, very heavy, nice sound. Definitely the best of the baritone bugles, IMO.

Over the years I've owned a lot of the rarest Kanstul marching horns around, including the only meehaphone in private hands. I've also owned a Kanstul low alto bugle (1 of 6), and Kanstul KHB-185 G French horn bugle (1 of 14).

I also owned a prototype Kanstul 975 compensating euphonium for many years - it's the euphonium that I played through my undergrad, grad school, and beyond. It wasn't perfect, and there were some quirks that I eventually tired of enough to sell it, but it was a solid instrument with a nice sound, and IMO the most comfortable left hand grip of any euphonium out there.

Finally, it's looking like I'm going to get a Kanstul 3/4 4-valve CC tuba soon, for a very good price. It'll be my first time owning a tuba since 2019, when I owned a 15" bell B&H compensating Eb.

I could write even more about Kanstul, but I'll stop there.

[bloke]

I don't know if you've ever encountered them, but Kurath (Willson) also made some F instruments which they marketed as mellophones in the United States through DEG, and featured two sizes of bells (either at the same time, or likely starting out with the smaller bell and later going to the larger bell to more resemble the competition).

The Kanstul marching baritone reminds me a lot of Blessing. The K I just repaired was quite distressed, and I got the "tune any note" slide moving enough to actually use - but not perfect, as that would have required taking a whole bunch of stuff apart and custom-making some braces (as that slide's longer tube is also tied in with the set-and-leave-alone main tuning slide, sort of like a horizontal version of an upper and lower third slide circuit on a tuba). Per typical, it had received a lot of love from "young scholars" and "master repair technicians" prior to me having been asked to put it back into useful condition, and really super-perfectly aligning everything would have dictated charging them a few hundred dollars rather than a hundred and something dollars...To be clear, I did that instrument a hell of a lot of good...
...In the found condition, I could just see some typical big music store's chief repair guy being instructed to tell the band director that the instrument was "junk", and that it needed to be replaced with a nice new Eastman/Yamaha/whatever-brand-that-store-sells. In this particular case, the youngish band director is neither gullible nor stupid, and - had he been told that - he would have picked it up, taken it somewhere else, and had it repaired.

[gocsick]

The DEG stuff made by Wilson was clearly marked on the valve section. I wish I knew the timeframe of when DEG/Dynasty was made by Wilson and when they started having stuff produced by Weril.

[bloke]

The DEG stuff made by Wilson was clearly marked on the valve section. I wish I knew the timeframe of when DEG/Dynasty was made by Wilson and when they started having stuff produced by Weril.

You can tell the Wilson F instruments from Weril...
The Weril things look like run-of-the-mill modern-day mellophones, whereas the Willson things look more like F alto trumpets...particularly the ones with the smaller bells.

[York-aholic]

they never did 2-valve horns except for the Commandant's Own)

I’m not sure if you meant 2 valve French horns or more broadly 2 valve bugles…

If the later, we had 6 2v Kanstul G contras (along with 2 King k90s (I chose one of those) and the prototype 3v G 3/4 contra) in VK in 1991. I never paid attention to who made the rest of the hornline.

The contra line went over to the Kanstul factory and they bent a lead pipe custom for each of the 6 players and gave us the factory tour.

[bloke]

Though their marching baritone was pretty darn good, I (a former Blessing USA dealer) judged the Blessing mellophone as the worst on the market.
One time when visiting up there, either Randy or Merle told me that they had contracted Walter Lawson to design a mouthpipe for it which would improve intonation.

At that moment (realizing how VERY different various marching mellophones/baritones and tubas/sousaphones are shaped, I realized that the mouthpipe taper has very little effect - as far as changing the intonation characteristics of any of those instruments - as the mouthpipe portions are so small, limited in length, and (being small) the possible variation in their taper being quite limited.

Sure...mouthpipes can offer more or less ability to favor ("lip") pitches, and can change the resistance ("feel") of an instrument, and - to a small extent - the resonance characteristics, but - as far as intonation tendencies throughout are concerned - only a very small amount.

...and yeah, the "Lawson-ized" Blessing mellophones still sucked...bad.

to step on even more toes...Reynold Schilke said, "..." again: OK. Fine, he said that. Those are good-and-great (depending on model) trumpets, but - just as no others do - they don't play themselves. He knew how to make stuff, and make it very well, but that doesn't mean that absolutely everything he said (even if he really believed everything he said, and even if 99.99% of those who heard/read what he said believe what he said) was valid...and whether-or-not there were charts/graphs to go along with those things that he said.

People (simple-minded, gullible, quick, clever, brilliant people) believe all sorts of things, and some of those things are probably true.

[Finetales]

I don't know if you've ever encountered them, but Kurath (Willson) also made some F instruments which they marketed as mellophones in the United States through DEG, and featured two sizes of bells (either at the same time, or likely starting out with the smaller bell and later going to the larger bell to more resemble the competition).

Yes, I used to own one. The DEG model 1220, described in catalogs as a "marching alto/French horn" but really an alto cornet in F. Mine had the small 6" bell, and most of the others I've seen had that size as well. I've seen a few of the larger-belled models, but never played one.

Willson also sold an E-flat version of the same instrument in home-market Switzerland. Additionally, the old (late '70s) Dynasty II Symphonic 2-valve G alto bugles were made (still by Willson) on the same basic chassis. I also had one of the impossibly rare Dynasty III 3-valve models that was made for European drum corps use. The alto played and sounded like a big flugelhorn (since that's essentially what it was), while the 1220 played and sounded like a big cornet (since that's essentially what it was). Both were nice instruments.

Dynasty III G alto bugle on the top, DEG 1220 F alto cornet on the bottom:

[MiBrassFS]

If you’re wanting to nerd out on Kanstul lore, this is a fun and very quick read. I enjoyed it quite a bit, because, well, I’m a brass nerd…

https://hornguys.com/collections/sheet- ... dale-olson

[bloke]

We had one (no idea where we got it), my oboe-playing daughter figured out how to play all the scales on it in one day, and was thinking about taking it to football games in high school, but we talked her into taking a piccolo, because she could shove it in her pocket if she had to, even in its case.

There's no way that I can remember who we sold it to either, but a friend of mine down in the Mississippi Delta has harvested two or three of them fairly recently from pawn shops.