It has begun...

[bisontuba]

On the Horn Guys website: fyi..

Tariff wars 2.0 will soon begin, adding 20%+ to the cost of nearly everything we import.
This is not ideal. Consider supplies to be limited, prices subject to change.

[iiipopes]

Weeks ago, instead of putting it off because I don't play it much, I sent a horn that needed a fair amount of attention to my tech, anticipating this might be the case about supply and availability of such mundane items as corks and felts.

[bloke]

other world leaders:

1/ fluster

2/ bluster

3/ quiet compromise... which won't covered particularly well by the majority of media outlets

Currently, we are at the beginning of 2/

Dozens and dozens of other countries have treated the United States like chumps (because we are chumps) for decades tariffing the crap out of our stuff.
People pay way too much for my mouthpieces overseas. It's time for someone to call their rulers on this and to get them to stop surcharging my products while our government has allowed their products to flow freely into our country. I'd like for people overseas to only have to pay the fairly costly postage, and not additionally some 20% thing that many of them have to pay to buy my mouthpieces. The point of finally - after all these years - giving all of them a taste of their own medicine has the objective of (not planning on tariffing they're goods for an extended period of time but) getting them to stop tariffing ours. When they stop, I'm absolutely sure that we will stop.

"bloke is being too political."
Who brought up the topic?
Particularly with these NATO countries, the tariffs they've been screwing us with for decades are particularly offensive, since the United States practically supplies them a nearly free defense, while they - - purchase fuel from the country that we are supposedly defending those countries against. The United States has about 340 million people in it, whereas western Europe has about 500 million. What the hell are we doing that for, particularly while they are screwing us on trade?

I can't imagine a more simple explanation than the one I offered above, but I'm sure there are people who are going to refuse to understand it.

[hrender]

Trade deficits are not the same as tariffs, and trade deficits are what was used to define the new US tariff rates. For example, we buy much more from Madagascar than they buy from us, primarily nickel, coffee, and spices. Based on the trade deficit, the new US tariff rate was determined to be 47% for Madagascar. I am not sure what "negotiating" Madagascar can do to offset this other than, possibly, to agree to sell the US nickel at a lower rate, which will primarily serve to lower an already extremely low standard of living for Madagascar. The average monthly wage ins Madagascar is $55, so there is relatively little that they can afford to buy more of from the US to reduce the trade deficit.

We also have created tariffs with many countries with whom we already have "free trade" agreements, e.g. Australia, Colombia, and Korea. In addition to violating those existing agreements, this means importers of products from those countries will have to pay more to bring those products into the country (think Colombian coffee). Americans ultimately will pay those costs through higher prices on those products. Given the highly globalized economy (i.e. the number of products that US buys that are partly or wholly imported), there will be a significant increase in the US cost of living (i.e. inflation) with a likely lowering of exports as other countries choose to buy from a more reliable trading partner. Current estimates of a US recession over the next year have risen from 40% to 80% by some estimates.

It is possible "arrangements" can be made for many of these countries, but the negative fallout will likely last years.

And then there is the cratering of the stock market.

Of tuba-related interest: the new tariff rate for goods out the EU is 20%, with possible additional increases April 9. That will impact any EU manufacturers of tubas, and those will be reflected in the new prices of the those goods as sold in the US. The import duty for Chinese goods will now be 34%, which presumably will affect all the Eastman, John Packer, Wessex, and similar products.

A good explainer: https://apnews.com/article/tariffs-cons ... 8bf02c2449

[Stryk]

How much do you pay in VAT when buying anything from Germany? Seems I remember 19%

[the elephant]

I'm fighting to keep my 186 tariff-free. I vow to keep my price at $6,500 because I love you all sooooo much. BAHAHAHA!!!

[hrender]

How much do you pay in VAT when buying anything from Germany? Seems I remember 19%

https://www.houseofcompanies.io/post/do ... -purchases

Related article on the existing tariffs on US products in the EU:

What customs duties generally apply in the EU and the USA?
The weighted average tariff rate in the EU and the USA is around 1 percent. While most goods are subject to a 0 percent tariff, there are significant tariffs in certain categories.

Examples of average tariff rates applied by the EU and the US are:

Motor vehicles: 10 percent in the EU, 2.5 percent in the U.S.
Dairy products: 30 percent in the EU, 17 percent in the USA
Petroleum products: 2.5 percent in the EU, 6.5 percent in the USA
It is important to note that these are only broad examples and the exact specification of a product is required to determine the applicable duty rate. The EU and the US have free trade agreements with many countries around the world (e.g. the EU with the UK, Canada, Japan and South Korea; the US with Mexico and Canada). However, no such agreement exists between the EU and the USA.

Therefore, importers to the EU cannot claim preferential tariffs (typically 0 percent) on US products, just as importers to the US cannot claim preferential tariffs on EU products.

[bloke]

170 countries significantly tariff our stuff imported into their countries, so it must be a particularly wonderful thing to do.

[Mary Ann]

I'm fighting to keep my 186 tariff-free. I vow to keep my price at $6,500 because I love you all sooooo much. BAHAHAHA!!!

I should buy that just so I can sell it in five years if I'm still here. You could pack it and drive to bloke's place and he could ship it so it wouldn't be Mississippi-messed. At my expense. I've always wanted a 186.

[bloke]

I think you need to find some students deemed responsible by the tuba instructor at Southern Miss who would like to go on a spring break road trip to California, and offer them $350 as a gasoline subsidy. I think Wade could get it down to them.

You two need to make this happen, Mary Ann doesn't bull$h!t.

The shortest route for those students would be up through Jackson Mississippi anyway, so Wade wouldn't have far to go to meet them and hand it to them.

[donn]

If you're in the US, I don't think you ought to be paying any VAT? It's the other way around - when I import something into the EU, from the US or Switzerland or whatever, there's a tax duty. That same Value Added Tax is already included in the sale price when I buy something here, whether of domestic or foreign origin.

I just checked on the price of a Lidl LBB 684-4 at Thoman - € 6299 to Portugal, € 5575.88 to US. (They're back ordered a couple weeks, but I guess if you ordered one now, you'd get it at this price.)

[C J]

People pay way too much for my mouthpieces overseas. It's time for someone to call their rulers on this and to get them to stop surcharging my products while our government has allowed their products to flow freely into our country. I'd like for people overseas to only have to pay the fairly costly postage, and not additionally some 20% thing that many of them have to pay to buy my mouthpieces.

When I buy a mouthpiece of Bruno Tilz I have to pay 21% vat (I live in the Netherlands)
When I buy A mouthpiece from Bloke I have to pay 21% vat
When I buy a mouthpiece from a china manufactury I have to pay 21% vat

It has nothing to do with coming out of the US of A but with our own tax system.
The only thing is that the 21% tax on the Tilz mouthpiece is being paid on checkout at the shop,
and the 21% on the blokepiece has to be paid at customs. As the courier is paying in advance they also want a piece of the pie so I have to pay them for paying my vat in advance, and we even have to pay vat over the postal costs

[bloke]

...and knowledgeable Americans have pointed out that tariffs aren't the only issue...it's (yes) the VAT crap as well.
... so how the hell is value added to something simply by taxing it?
True Austrian/Hayekian economics would define that heavily taxing something actually diminishes its demand, and - probably then - it's value.

[Oedipoes]

...and knowledgeable Americans have pointed out that tariffs aren't the only issue...it's (yes) the VAT crap as well.
... so how the hell is value added to something simply by taxing it?
True Austrian/Hayekian economics would define that heavily taxing something actually diminishes its demand, and - probably then - it's value.

VAT is charged at the same rate to products from local businesses, it does not make a competitive difference for you towards the end-customer...

[bloke]

...and knowledgeable Americans have pointed out that tariffs aren't the only issue...it's (yes) the VAT crap as well.
... so how the hell is value added to something simply by taxing it?
True Austrian/Hayekian economics would define that heavily taxing something actually diminishes its demand, and - probably then - it's value.

VAT is charged at the same rate to products from local businesses, it does not make a competitive difference for you towards the end-customer...

Okay. Thanks for educating me on that. We have the same thing I suppose called sales tax, but it's rarely over 10% - depending on the city and state. I think Memphis is getting ready to bust the 10% threshold because they've decided to build a new jail. I think the old one was built about 40 years ago and was so expensive that it was called the "glamor slammer"... but I truly believe they've actually honestly worn it out.
We're at 9.25 forty-to-fifty miles away, where I live.
I can drive 40 minutes down to Mississippi and pay seven on groceries and also get about 20 cents cheaper per gallon gasoline, so it really doesn't cost me anything but a few minutes extra to drive down there, because the big supermarkets up here are already 25 minutes away.
Otherwise, I avoid a lot of local sales tax by mostly buying good/used stuff from other individuals, and not loading up on gadgets and Asian crap sold it places like Walmart and fancier places.
I also buy replacement repair parts for instruments and other things from sole proprietor out of state places that offer me better prices including shipping than local places with sales tax added...
...but I suspect these workarounds are not as available in Europe.
Frankly in the United States (if there's room on someone's credit card to buy something), many don't give a crap what something costs nor how much they are taxed on it.

[Oedipoes]

On the Horn Guys website: fyi..

Tariff wars 2.0 will soon begin, adding 20%+ to the cost of nearly everything we import.
This is not ideal. Consider supplies to be limited, prices subject to change.

Some maths on the tariff "formula" here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j04IAbWCszg

[hrender]

170 countries significantly tariff our stuff imported into their countries, so it must be a particularly wonderful thing to do.

This is a list of tariff rates internationally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ariff_rate
You can sort the list by the percentage. Of the 197 countries in the list, only 36 (primarily fairly small countries) have rates above 10%. The new US baseline tariff is 10%.

The new US "reciprocal" tariffs that go into affect tonight are actually based on the trade deficits the US has with other countries, i.e. amount of US goods they buy vs. amount of their goods the US buys, i.e. https://apnews.com/article/trump-new-ta ... 6fe64d0075. If a small country (like Madagascar) is primarily an exporter of commodities ( like nickel and vanilla) and not an importer of US goods, they'll be hit with a bigger tariff (47%) than a country like Australia, which is actually a net importer of US goods. Notably Australian good will still be subject to the 10% baseline tariff.

[dp]

The REAL 2.0 to be worried about is another housing/real estate bubble. 2/3 of all aggregate household wealth is tied up in mortgages, right now probably 1/4 of that is (or should be) being re-financed right now. Be grateful that is happening whether you want to talk about it or not

[Mary Ann]

Best thing I EVER did was pay my first house off in ten years, and save up enough to where I paid off my second one in two years, my third and current one in one year. Best thing EVER. I drove grubby used cars, didn't eat out, etc., shopped at thrift stores, and it was worth it.

[dp]

Best thing I EVER did was pay my first house off in ten years, and save up enough to where I paid off my second one in two years, my third and current one in one year. Best thing EVER. I drove grubby used cars, didn't eat out, etc., shopped at thrift stores, and it was worth it.

My kinda girl