Mouthpiece recommendation

[Robson]

Hi guys! It's my first post here and I need your help

I've been playing the trumpet for more than 30 years and I want to start doubling on tuba
As a trumpet player, I like high notes, even on the tuba hahahahaha. I love high singing solos on the bass tuba
My plan is to buy a good affordable Eb tuba, like a Yamaha 321 to start. I would love to star on a F tuba, but it's almost impossible to find a good one here in Brazil

My question is: What mouthpiece should I buy to start with?
As a trumpet player, I'm used to a much smaller mouthpiece. Is it a good idea to buy something small like a Denis Wick 4L or 5L? 
Or it's better to buy something shallower like a PT-64 or a PT-65?
Or it's better to start with something neutral like a Conn Helleberg?
I have no idea what's the best mouthpiece to start (being a trumpet player), but I know mouthpiece characteristics that I don't like: wide cushion rims, don't work for me... I also don't like sharp inner edges, they are very uncomfortable for me

Sorry for the long post. Thanks a lot!!!

Robson

[claf]

I'm in the same boat as you: 30 years playing trumpet, started trombones (bass then tenor) a few years ago and tuba 2 months ago.

I've been advised a Wick 3L for my Eb tuba, and so far I'm quite happy with it and am progressing quite fast.

Sharing a piece of wisdom I learnt during my various mouthpieces safaris: your shape/size/depth/color preference might differ on differents instruments. For example I like small mouthpieces on trumpet (10-1/2c) but am using large mouthpieces on tenor trombone (4C on small bore and 4G on large bore) and small mouthpieces on bass trombone (1-1/2G).
I like wide rims on trumpet but narrow rims on trombone.

It will not necessarily be the same for you, my advice is just not to close yourself with trying something new just because "it's not what I like on trumpet".

[bloke]

I like wide rims on trumpet but narrow rims on trombone.

This is what I'm seeing:
You like "relatively" wide rims on trumpet mouthpieces, and "not that much wider" rims on trombone mouthpieces.

me?
yep...I don't like much rim surface area against my face either...and I also don't large relatively sharp-turn interior rim edges.

I believe both "a bunch of metal against my face" and "sharp interior corners" inhibit flexibility...though plenty of remarkable players overcome these.

[Robson]

My wife plays the trombone and I tried some of her mouthpieces. I liked the 6 1/2, but I hated the 5GS, because of the sharp bite. I believe the same is going to happen with the tuba. No sharp bites for me hahahahaha

Here in Brazil we have no music stores with a good selection of mouthpieces, so I have to buy without trying...

Is it a bad thing starting with a middle shallow mouthpiece?

Is it a bad thing starting with a small diameter mouthpiece?

PS. My trumpet mouthpiece is a Monette B1-1 (very large), and I use the same rim for everything, from piccolo to flugelhorn

[russiantuba]

It’s potentially an expensive suggestion, but see if you can buy a few widely contrasting mouthpieces and try out to see what you like and sell the rest. I would recommend going to a conference or sitting down at Bloke’s place or Giddings, but since you are in Brazil, that will be tough. However, you could consider resale.

Note—I do highly recommend modular systems like Blokepieces, Houser, Doug Elliot. For example, I really liked my old Conn Geib copy, hated the rim. The Blokepiece Symphony is close, has a lot of elements of a Geib, I like the reverse taper, and I get a rim of my C4. My f tuba cup and rim match my old C4, but the shank #0 adds so much brilliance, the thing I was missing (plus no wobble at the gap). I have come to find that elements I like in a few one piece mouthpieces seem to never be present together.

I do know Brazil has a quite good university system for music—at least I have heard some talented videos of tubists from there and it’s a huge country. Perhaps seek to pay for the time and test out some mouthpieces of the nearest with a tuba professor

[bloke]

If you can figure out which popular mouthpieces seem to be ones that are a reasonably good matches for your instrument (according to the American "freak jury") - and maybe if you have some money - you could have five or six sit down there, play them all for a month or two (treating them all very gently), decide which one you like best out of the batch, and - since you say there's not much available to buy in Brazil - maybe sell the other ones to Brazilians at higher prices than you paid for them...(??)

I might stay away from some crazy expensive stuff like $350 bucks or stuff like that... I'd probably not risk being able to get stuff like that re-sold.

I don't know if English is your first language. My posts tend to be conversational English, and I hope they're easy to interpret, if it's your second language.

[donn]

I see Jc Custom is still in business there. Of idle curiosity.

It seems to me that it's good to start with a popular but inexpensive design. Mouthpieces advertised in some form as as model 18, are presumably modeled after the Bach 18, which is arguably one of the most popular of all time, and should have a somewhat rounded rim. If someone stocks Kelly lexan polycarbonate mouthpieces, they have added utility as a convenient spare mouthpiece - normal brass tuba mouthpieces are very heavy.

[Robson]

It’s potentially an expensive suggestion, but see if you can buy a few widely contrasting mouthpieces and try out to see what you like and sell the rest. I would recommend going to a conference or sitting down at Bloke’s place or Giddings, but since you are in Brazil, that will be tough. However, you could consider resale.

I do know Brazil has a quite good university system for music—at least I have heard some talented videos of tubists from there and it’s a huge country. Perhaps seek to pay for the time and test out some mouthpieces of the nearest with a tuba professor

I'll think about your suggestion. It's a real possibility to buy 2 or 3 mouthpieces and sell the ones that I didn't like, but I need to think a lot before buying it...
I live in Sao Paulo, the biggest city of the country and I know a huge number of tuba players, but more than 95% of the tuba players that I know are non professional church musicians that play exclusively on very large BBb or CC tubas. They would never buy something like a Denis Wick 5L or a PT-64

[Robson]

If you can figure out which popular mouthpieces seem to be ones that are a reasonably good matches for your instrument (according to the American "freak jury") - and maybe if you have some money - you could have five or six sit down there, play them all for a month or two (treating them all very gently), decide which one you like best out of the batch, and - since you say there's not much available to buy in Brazil - maybe sell the other ones to Brazilians at higher prices than you paid for them...(??)

I might stay away from some crazy expensive stuff like $350 bucks or stuff like that... I'd probably not risk being able to get stuff like that re-sold.

I don't know if English is your first language. My posts tend to be conversational English, and I hope they're easy to interpret, if it's your second language.

Thanks, Bloke! I'll think about buying more than 1 mouthpiece and choose the one I like best

English is not my native language, but I can communicate well in English. I'm not using a translator, I'm really writing and reading in English
Yes! I got what you wrote

[Robson]

I see Jc Custom is still in business there. Of idle curiosity.

It seems to me that it's good to start with a popular but inexpensive design. Mouthpieces advertised in some form as as model 18, are presumably modeled after the Bach 18, which is arguably one of the most popular of all time, and should have a somewhat rounded rim. If someone stocks Kelly lexan polycarbonate mouthpieces, they have added utility as a convenient spare mouthpiece - normal brass tuba mouthpieces are very heavy.

JC Custom is famous here in Brazil, but for a bad reason...lack of consistency. Two mouthpieces of the "same size" can be very different

[donn]

I'm sorry to say that this is not their unique problem. One problem - probably not the only one - is wear, eroding the tool that cuts the shape of the mouthpiece. There has been lots of fun comparing Bach tuba mouthpieces that should be the same, and Bach is a fairly well respected marque. This may be one of the advantages of the more expensive mouthpiece - as fewer are made, the cutting tools will last longer.

[Robson]

I'm sorry to say that this is not their unique problem. One problem - probably not the only one - is wear, eroding the tool that cuts the shape of the mouthpiece. There has been lots of fun comparing Bach tuba mouthpieces that should be the same, and Bach is a fairly well respected marque. This may be one of the advantages of the more expensive mouthpiece - as fewer are made, the cutting tools will last longer.

As a mechanical technician and aeronautical engineering, I can say that you are absolutely correct!!!

[iiipopes]

Start with the same mouthpiece most of us started on in school: a Conn Helleberg 120. You will find them used on the forum. It is a standard item that is well known. Then if you keep playing tuba, you can determine what you do and don't like about it, then go on safari if it simply doesn't work for you. Hey, I still play mine on occasion.

Oh - and remember - breath support: where upper brass is about velocity of air, lower brass is more about volume of air, also referred to as "big, easy, air." Work on your breathing techniques, using the intercostals, diaphram muscles, and abdominals correctly to support all that big, easy, air.

[Mary Ann]

I tried to get the web site for Dave Werden's mouthpiece comparison chart, but can't get it to load.

If someone wants to start fairly generic but good, the JK line is a good place to look. But on that site I can't find the usual stuff either; could be they removed prices due to the tariff thing.

I'm using a 7B on the 183, but it will take a lot of air without barking. The Wick 5 works well for me on the 283. I played forever on a 184CC with a PT 64. (Miraphones)

Some Eb players use smaller cups than those, and if a person is trying to adjust from something like a trumpet to a tuba, that might be a good idea, with moving to something larger once the basics are ironed out. When changing from a very small cup, players tend to use a narrow little buzz in the center of the cup, and sometimes graduating cup sizes can help with the adjustment to the width of a tuba embouchure's "buzz." The JK line is good for graduating sizes without spending a fortune, but borrowing if possible is the best route.

If the shank will fit, I have a Bach 32E I will send you for postage cost. It is an Eb mouthpiece but is too small for me now, but wasn't too small when I first picked up a tuba.

[donn]

I believe JK mouthpieces are retailed in Brazil, and might be a reasonable alternative to the DW 4L/5L - I don't know what depth though. I'd call the DW 5L a fairly deep mouthpiece, relative to inside cup diameter.

Any smaller than that, seems like it would be an eccentric choice. That doesn't mean it's wrong, if there are unusual circumstances that call for it. Many of course play on slightly larger mouthpieces.

Conn 7b and 120S are known for relatively sharp rims.

[Robson]

Oh - and remember - breath support: where upper brass is about velocity of air, lower brass is more about volume of air, also referred to as "big, easy, air." Work on your breathing techniques, using the intercostals, diaphram muscles, and abdominals correctly to support all that big, easy, air.

I really need to work on my breathing! I'm pretty sure that it's going to be completely different on the tuba (comparing with the trumpet). On the piccolo trumpet for instance, I need a small amount of air, but I need a huge amount of air pressure

[Robson]

I tried to get the web site for Dave Werden's mouthpiece comparison chart, but can't get it to load.

If someone wants to start fairly generic but good, the JK line is a good place to look. But on that site I can't find the usual stuff either; could be they removed prices due to the tariff thing.

I'm using a 7B on the 183, but it will take a lot of air without barking. The Wick 5 works well for me on the 283. I played forever on a 184CC with a PT 64. (Miraphones)

Some Eb players use smaller cups than those, and if a person is trying to adjust from something like a trumpet to a tuba, that might be a good idea, with moving to something larger once the basics are ironed out. When changing from a very small cup, players tend to use a narrow little buzz in the center of the cup, and sometimes graduating cup sizes can help with the adjustment to the width of a tuba embouchure's "buzz." The JK line is good for graduating sizes without spending a fortune, but borrowing if possible is the best route.

If the shank will fit, I have a Bach 32E I will send you for postage cost. It is an Eb mouthpiece but is too small for me now, but wasn't too small when I first picked up a tuba.

Thank you for your tips and specially thank you very much for offering your mouthpiece!! But I can't accept because, I believe this Bach rim is not going to work on my chops. I don't want to take advantage of your kindness.

[Robson]

Conn 7b and 120S are known for relatively sharp rims.

Thank you for this information! I didn't know about it....

[iiipopes]

Conn 7b and 120S are known for relatively sharp rims.

Thank you for this information! I didn't know about it....

Sharp rim? It depends on the year of manufacture. My Conn Helleberg 120S has a rim that is more like a Wick rim, slightly rounded and not sharp at all. I have played the sharp rims, but mine is not one of them.

[Robson]

Conn 7b and 120S are known for relatively sharp rims.

Thank you for this information! I didn't know about it....

Sharp rim? It depends on the year of manufacture. My Conn Helleberg 120S has a rim that is more like a Wick rim, slightly rounded and not sharp at all. I have played the sharp rims, but mine is not one of them.

Is your Helleberg mouthpiece new or vintage?