Martin Eb 4V - Repair or replace

[1 Ton Tommy]

I have a 1918 Martin 4v that I have played for many years. The valves have gotten loose enough that I can no longer compensate, particularly in the upper register, so it's time to do something about it. The horn has a great sound that I and the rest of the orchestra love. It has just enough "bark" to play bass trombone parts but doesn't complement the string basses particularly well. I have a Martin Mammoth for that. The Eb has its share of dents that have been knocked out and a repaired lead pipe. Silver plate.

The closest major city is Seattle and the local tuba guy turned up his nose at doing anything to it. So I don't know what to do. I have found new to newish Eb horns in the $8,000 range and having no opportunity to play test any of them I have no idea what I'm getting into. But I may have to go that route.

The current season ends in May so I could be without it for a while if I shipped it to someone for repair. Having it repaired on the West Coast would be a plus as I would be willing to deliver it now that the weather is better. If anyone has suggestions on repair or what to replace it with I would be appreciate it.

[gocsick]

You owe it to yourself to try the Wessex Gnagey and Tubby. Really nice players and classic American Eb sound.

I have a 3+1 Holton medium Eb from right around the same time as your Martin. It was originally a three valver but @tylerferris1213 happened to have an Anderson rebuilt valveset, that had been waiting for years for the right project. So I got lucky on that front. Has a bit of the stretched intonation with Eb below the staff sitting a little flat but the octave up a little sharp... and of course Bb is a bit saggy... typical old American Eb stuff .. but a blast to play.

How is the intonation on the Martin?

[bloke]

From Jinbao to Besson, the best E-flat tubas to me seem to be the 3+1 compensating ones.

I know Americans freak out when they have to play tubas with valves on top, and they have a heart attack and a stroke when they have to play the fourth valve with the other hand, so...

(and Americans also can't seem to figure out how to hold these and play them)

[Sousaswag]

To be honest, I’d have the valves rebuilt. If you’ve owned this thing for as long as in your signature, I think you owe that horn some love. You can’t find anything really like it anymore.

That said, getting into a modern Eb may not be the worst idea - They’ll likely be more in-tune. If it were ME, I’d probably try to do both things. Rebuild valves, maybe get into a not so expensive 3+1 Eb, or go all in on a Willson 3400 if money isn’t a concern.

[MiBrassFS]

To be honest, I’d have the valves rebuilt. If you’ve owned this thing for as long as in your signature, I think you owe that horn some love. You can’t find anything really like it anymore.

That said, getting into a modern Eb may not be the worst idea - They’ll likely be more in-tune. If it were ME, I’d probably try to do both things. Rebuild valves, maybe get into a not so expensive 3+1 Eb, or go all in on a Willson 3400 if money isn’t a concern.

This. ^

Eb rules.

[York-aholic]

@1 Ton Tommy Of all the old American Eb tubas, I’ve felt like the Martin Medium (17” bell) tubas were the most in tune, however I haven’t played one of Martin’s Monsters (20-21” bell). The first Medium I had (a 3+1) was scary in tune.

Is yours a Medium or a Monster? If Medium, is the fourth played by the left index finger or is it 4 in a row (they made both)?

If 3 + 1, are all 4 valves worn out or is #4 less of a problem? I know where a 3 valve valve cluster is (free +cost of shipping) and could probably be swapped in (keeping the original 4th). Or if warranted, could be replated as it’s already dismounted, then swapped in so the horn isn’t out of commission for very long.

[Mark E. Chachich]

My opinion:

If you really like the tuba and it does what you need it to do, repair it.

best,
Mark

[1 Ton Tommy]

Thanks very much for the suggestions and encouragement. My first choice would be to repair it.

The horn is a "medium" with the 17" bell; we traced around it as a template for our new kitchen countertop.

Its intonation used to be very good. Now I struggle to find alternate fingerings to keep it within 10-15 cents. I'm playing second line F with 4th valve -- 1st valve is terrible. Its a 3+1 so I get confused on fast passages using 4th instead of 1st but it's better than 1 & 3.

My present tale of woe is how long it took to work out the fingerings to play the bass trombone part on Les Toreadors and I've requested that the conductor take it fast enough so I can make it from rehearsal C to D -2 bars in one breath. That's about 124-130, so I can't deal with clumsy fingerings. Being 6 sharps away from home makes it harder yet. It would be entirely doable if the horn was in good health. As it is it's pretty stressful.

It seems to me that the 4th valve could be serviced in situ by plating the piston and honing the bore to fit; maybe with an automotive wheel cylinder brake hone. I'd take up on the offer of a valve set for the other three. It's a 5/8" bore. Once the valves are done I'll see if that brings the whole horn into tune. It's s struggle to get an A 440 unless it's warm. My theory is that these horns were built in the day that American orchestras tuned to 435 or maybe even 432. I play it with the slides all the way in and it's flatter than the oboe when cold but I say "be patient, it'll warm up."

[bloke]

Isn't the cheapest solution to the intonation problem to discard your tuner and purchase some earplugs?

[hrender]

I'm curious: who is still around that that can overhaul a valve section now that Anderson no longer provides that service?

[1 Ton Tommy]

Isn't the cheapest solution to the intonation problem to discard your tuner and purchase some earplugs?

I tried that but the conductor has a limited sense of humor. I do have special custom earplugs for when I have to sit next to the Timpani. Got them from the VA medical center in Seattle. No charge.

Anderson no longer plates valves?! Bummer. I wonder who Oberloh gets to do his? He uses a Sunnen piston pin-fitter for the bores. Maybe he'd work on just the valves if they weren't in the horn.

[hrender]

I think most of the folks who do valve jobs would prefer/require that the valve set be detached from the horn first. At least, that's what I've heard.

[1 Ton Tommy]

Thanks to Susawag and York-a-holic for your PMs. I would reply but I don't have enough posts yet to qualify. I'm interested in both your proposals/comments.