POLL: shorty/fatty (York-like) Holton B-flat tuba with 19-inch bell...

[bloke]

Very nice! When you "stuff" the tubing with inner tubing, do you solder it in at all or is it just sitting in there?

Likely, a little bit of solder (when soldering the main joints) will catch at one end or the other with both of those, which is enough to keep them from rattling or vibrating (though they shouldn’t anyway). Typically, factories do not solder in spacer tubes.
Though it was pretty stubborn, I actually got one out of an outside slide tube today that had been embedded up inside for at least sixty years - if not seventy or eighty.

[Yorkboy]

Though it was pretty stubborn, I actually got one out of an outside slide tube today that had been embedded up inside for at least sixty years - if not seventy or eighty.

Tough work, indeed - I'm unsuccessful just about as often as I'm successful, using the fire wrench and Kroil.

[bloke]

I'm going to have to round up (or fab' up) some skinny little braces...because I do not like contact joints; contact solder joints often fail.

[bloke]

OK...
This is quite a bit of progress, in the last two days.
Once these 4th circuit solder joints are cleaned up, the valveset and mouthpipe can be mounted on to the bugle, hardened, checked for errors in circuit lengths' calculations, corrected if needed, and the possible (parts are available) mounting of a 5th valve can be considered.

I'm seeing about 72" here (plus pulls). I continue to not chop off the excess inside slide tubing on the lower #4 slide, just in case any of that length is needed. There's also some old silver plating on those inside slide tubes (as well as on that crook) that needs to disappear.

Every time I leave my phone out in the shop - and borrow Mrs. bloke's phone to take pictures - some of them end up being blurry...whatev'...

[bloke]

I'm working out valveset MOUNTING and valveset NESTLING (low, into the bugle, yet hopefully not-weird-looking) strategies on Christmas Day.

I'm also trying to take advantage of the same strategy by using the smallest possible braces, that are the very least noticeable.

Note that the #3 slide tube only hovers about 1/4" above the small upper bow of the bugle.

Set up like this I will have over a 2" pull available on the #1 slide (as yes: it IS close to the bell), but - if that isn't enough, this tuba (or ANY tuba) plays too out-of-tune with itself to be worthy of consideration...yes?

I have to stop working on this soon, to go visit my sister - and then Mrs. bloke's sister, but I've come up with this.

I may leave ALL of these braces un-soldered, so I can think about it (while making happy xmas small-talk at others' homes)...

...and I may leave it all just barely tacked together (just enough to be "safe") in case I decide to drop the entire valveset lower (which could easily define the tuba as being too long to tune at 440, or - occasionally - a tad above.

The mouthpipe tube is a "fake" placeholder. I'll - almost certainly - be making a new one.

[bloke]

EDIT...

My *bloker-sense is telling me that this tuba is going to end up being "sharp-natured", so I'm going to extend the SMALL side (outside tube) of the main tuning slide (with a bore spacer inserted), and then install the 5th rotor PAST the dogleg - rather than CUTTING AWAY part of the dogleg to install the 5th rotor.

A "failsafe" is that the main tuning slide ferrules - in addition to the "legs" of the main slide bow - are LONG, and (thus) can be significantly shortened, if this tack adds TOO MUCH length.

________________________________________
*bloker-sense:
bloker-sense presents a psychological awareness of bloke's surroundings. It allows bloke to detect danger before it happens and warns him of it. The greater the danger or how close the danger is increases the tingling (well...unless it's simply caused by "too much coffee") sensation.

[Yorkboy]

...and I may leave it all just barely tacked together (just enough to be "safe") in case I decide to drop the entire valveset lower (which could easily define the tuba as being too long to tune at 440, or - occasionally - a tad above.

Good tactic. What I like to do is solder on to the exit port of the 4th valve a ferrule and a piece of inside tubing, and then I can "slide" the entire valveset up or down a few inches, to dial in the pitch as needed.

Once I'm satisfied, I can replace that set-up with a solid outside tube, or even just leave the exposed inside tube and firm it up inside the existing MTS outside tube (this in effect works as an exposed spacer tube, eliminating the dreaded "bore gap" exiting the 4th valve into the MTS).

20201228_005208_copy_459x816.jpg (137.1 KiB) Viewed 1501 times

It's difficult to see what I'm talking about, because the brace is blocking the view of where the transition occurs.

[bloke]

I see what you did, and it’s quite clever.
I should follow your advice and your tack.
That having been said – and I mean this - I’m just not sensible nor disciplined enough to do that, and I’m going to go for broke...(bloker sense, and all that...)
...once I finish getting this Holton double horn ready to sell (tomorrow).

If I roll snake eyes, I will announce it promptly.

[bloke]

Suddenly, this thing IS going to be "a tuba"...but a whole bunch of stuff has to happen - all at once...and ALL of those things have to be rockin' and rollin'.

Today,
I buffed a bunch of solder/oxidation off a bunch of valveset solder joints, as well as buffing down some years-of-school-use etching from some of the outside slide tubing.
I went ahead and made that new 1-1/2 inch LONGER main-slide small-side outside slide tube (with bore spacer) and installed it...Everything is scraps scrounged from old music-store-"tech"-ruined-valve-casings King sousaphones (etc.), with a few of the slide bows being 11/16" bore Reynolds bows gifted me (thank-you, sir!) by York-aholic.

The valveset will now (once the rotor and its circuit are installed) drop down to a much-more eye-pleasing and #1 slide-able-to-be-removed position (due to being far enough down away from the bell, on this super-short tuba).

I also got the #4 upper slide moving as nicely as upper slides #'s 1, 2, and 3.

I have a Jinbao 3/4" bore rotor (from a p.o.s. Jinbao tuba, that I bought for parts) that works well and isn't leaky nor rattly.
I'm removing any nickel tubes and ferrules from The Jinbao assembly (which has some elbows attached which I will use), and replacing everything with BRASS inside/outside tubing material (again: 3/4" bore) - to avoid any nickel on the (working to keep this an) all-brass instrument.
I'm HOPING that the Jinbao rotor cap is nickel PLATED, so that I can strip the nickel plating from the rotor cap, and it - too - will be brass.
(This is just a "looks" thing, but...)
I'm planning on installing the rotor, its complete circuit (braced, with a slide) the dogleg, and the complete valveset ALL AT ONCE.
Well...I sorta have to...

After that, I'll be bending/installing a mouthpipe (I already have the straight tapered tube and a receiver ready to go...along with a couple of fresh hunks of cerrobend. I WOULD NOT have minded re-using the King tuba's mouthpipe tube (which sorta/mighta been about right), BUT - since I really did "nestle" this valveset pretty deep into the tuba's bugle, that King mouthpipe won't do, as a compound angle (now) on the mouthpipe's tail is required.

This typing reminds me of how people (when playing tubas on videos) bull$h!t forever, and then play (such as it is ) for ten seconds ...ANNOYING !!!

...so (with apologies for all the text, here are (ONLY) two pictures:




note: When you COMPLETELY pull all the rotors apart (as did Wade, with his 186 projects) building rotary projects is more difficult than building piston projects, BUT - when it's possible to leave all the rotors (and SOME of their tubing circuitry) attached together, piston tuba build gigs are more troublesome that rotary tuba build gigs...particularly (raising my hand, here) when there is no plan.

[bloke]

OK...
If the 5th valve assembly is to be installed as an ALREADY FASTENED ON part of the valveset, I'd better get busy...so I've started "building" on this assembly.

I'd love to be using a European-made rotor assembly that is 3/4-inch bore, but I HAVE a handful of Jinbao ones...and they WORK...so that saves months of waiting, and several hundred dollars...but it will be tubed with Eastlake 3/4 inch bore brass (inside/outside) tubing. Something else convenient about the Jinbao rotor: Its stop arm is 100% ready to accept M3 threaded Minibal linkage (from the thumb lever).

As this 5th circuit is going to be an FF semitone, I'm probably going to try to make the circuit about 18-1/2 inches long, which (I'm hoping this is a good guess...) allows for a little bit of a pull for pitch. Fortunately, I have plenty of junk laying around to do that AND that should fit well into the turkey-cavity of the tuba.

a bit of serendipity:
All I had to do to get this rotor to work with a right-hand thumb lever (not yet fabricated) was to drill one additional thread hole into the top of the rotor casing, and tap a 2.5mm thread into it. I did NOT need to tear apart the stop arm and move its nib - which is tedious, and which was required on the Conn model 88H trombone job (also posted in this forum). When you look at the pictures, you'll see that I was able to reuse one of the two original cork plate mounting female threaded holes, simply rotate the cork plate 90 degrees, drill a new screw hole, and tap a 2.5mm thread into it. admission: I was impatient, couldn't immediately locate my 2.5mm tap, so I used an extremely-close-to-the-same-thing S.A.E. tap (for the metric 2.5mm screw) which works just fine, thanks.

Anyway...
This junk ain't soldered together, and It won't be - until I get the slide circuit installed to the rotor.
(BTW...The rotor body's attitude will be at a bit of a tilt...perhaps twenty degrees. For maintenance, the rotor body will escape towards the bell, and subtly downhill.





Happy New Year, to those of you in Europe.

[pjv]

Happy New Year Western Hemisphere Brethren.

It's WAY too late for this suggestion;

I remember seeing a very cleaver routing for the 5th tubing (Melton??) which made use of a double-loop (like the top portion of a Conn sous 3rd tubing).
The top two bows were both removable tuning slides.

They could also be pulled and reinserted a 1/4 turn, thus creating a shorter 5th tubing and a self contained dummy loop (more room to hide your stash. Or Vodka).

A very elegant solution, but probably only was feasible because the 5th was located before the 1st.

[bloke]

If I get that circuit built today, you’ll see how simple my task is, and now easily it fits in the allotted space.

[bloke]

If I get that circuit built today, you’ll see how simple my task is, and now easily it fits in the allotted space.

[York-aholic]

I supposed being able to actually remove that 1st valve slide might be desirable every now and then.

Good thinking Sir.

[bloke]

I know I already posted this, but I’m not much of a journey-enjoyer, and mostly enjoy having completed things, so future completion of future things may then be anticipated.
Again: I need to finish this friggin‘ thing.

[Yorkboy]

I know I already posted this, but I’m not much of a journey-enjoyer, and mostly enjoy having completed things, so future completion of future things may then be anticipated.

Very interesting - I was thinking about exactly this subject earlier today.

Oftentimes, I feel exactly the opposite when in the home stretch of a project; sort of that "let down" feeling that it's almost over. Sometimes, I intentionally postpone that "one last thing"; and many times I'm already planning the next one in my head....

Your horn is coming along beautifully, BTW

[bloke]

I appreciate the encouragement.

I’m pretty sure that my attitude is based on the fact that I do this day-in and day-out, and always have to keep moving on to the next thing.

In fact, I’ve done a really good job of keeping up with customer work lately, but that presents an opportunity to finally pull down things from upstairs, and get those things ready to sell. I’m working inside a giant junk pile of parts and tools, and need to finish this tuba, probably spend a full week organizing and cleaning up my workroom, and then I need to pick out the next thing(s) to get ready for selling, because…well…income, you know…

I’ve got most of the fifth circuit built, but I am waiting to take pictures of it until it’s done.

There is an issue of making sure that the rotor cap unscrews, and that the rotor escapes from the casing as well.

Nestling everything is great and all, but also means that clearances are bare minimum.

...trade-offs

[Yorkboy]

Life is full of trade offs!

I'm a hobbyist, and of course, that will change my feelings about stuff like this (although there are times I feel like throwing what I'm working on in a dumpster - I settle for yelling some unpleasant words instead); I just thought it kismet that you posted about something that I had been also thinking about deeply earlier today. In point of fact, I was actually questioning myself if my feelings (reticence to finish something) were "normal".

The last thing I wanted to do was volunteer my time at home doing essentially the same thing I did to make my nut. It also reminds me of my uncle the carpenter; his personal house was a series of half-finished projects. The last thing he wanted to do was frame a wall after 8 hours of framing walls.....

I remember an old Model T guy (they all seem to be old!) telling me once, "10 thousandths of an inch (in a motor) might as well be a mile".....if they don't bump into each other, the tolerance is good enough!

[bloke]

If the rotor cap unscrews without scraping on the dogleg, I know the rotor body will come out, because as soon as the stem starts dropping down from its bearing, it gets loose, which allows the rotor body to angle upward - even while in its casing.

[cktuba]

Excited to see how this looks when finished and to hear you use it on a gig or something.