Old Man Tubas... a list or repository?

[Doc]

There have been a number of discussions that included talk of small tubas, lightweight tubas, old man tubas, old woman tubas, etc. Weight is sometimes discussed, but not necessarily all dimensions. Can we make a sort of go-to list/repository/reference page for easy to play, easy to wield, easy to carry tubas including weight and dimensions? Reference photos and any other pertinent info, including personal experience (if any) would be nice.

Admins: If I am out of my lane here, I'll slow down and move over and give you the road.

I'm familiar with some that will likely be posted here. One I am continually interested in, and apparently incredibly rare or non-existent in the US is the Melton/Meinl Weston 2011RA.
Bell - 440cm/17.3"
Height - 91cm/36"
Bore - 18.5 - 19.5 (4th) / .728 - .767
Weight - 19lbs. 9oz.

2011ra.jpg (88.03 KiB) Viewed 2627 times

[Ace]

Doc, your suggestion has the makings of a good and interesting thread. Especially now that I am 85 and a bit short on air supply. I can no longer think about my dearly loved Cerveny 601-5MR which I sold to a young man in El Paso, Texas. That horn was an air hog, but the buyer was a large guy with plenty of steam. I'll be looking forward to how this thread develops. It should provide some very helpful information for all of us.

Ace

[bort2.0]

Here's my list. Some are a little larger than others, and some are larger bore, and the PT-10 is just kind of like "if I'm old and know F tuba fingerings well enough, then F the low parts and lemme play the middle stuff." That's probably where I'm heading when I get old.

Only real experience with older people and these tubas is the Meinl Weston 18. Sounded great in the hands of the old guy who played it!

Haha, then there's Lenny Jung... who was well into his 80s when I played next to him, and he had his Martin 6/4. What a tough old guy, and so super nice! (Is he still alive?)

BBb
Meinl Weston 18 (Handy)
Yamaha 621 BBb
Olds 99 or similar
Lidl 3/4 BBb

CC
Miraphone 184 or 185 (or heck, even the 186 TBH)
Cerveny Piggy
Yamaha 621 CC
Lidl 3/4 CC
Marzan solo

F
Cerveny 653 (14 lbs!)
Yamaha 621 F
B&S PT-10

[MN_TimTuba]

An excellent idea and an appropriate topic, since we'll all get older by and by.
Nearly all of my experience has been with medium to very large BBb tubas, but I've found these smaller tubas to be high on my own personal list of Old Man Tubas (along with the others listed above):

Yamaha 103
Cerveny Arion/JP379B
King 2341 new style

I have about 5 yrs experience with the Yamaha 621BB and it is terrific; I've had this little 103 for almost a year, and find that it's 3 valve configuration could handle probably 90%+ of all community band music (and it has a good low F), so in a tuba section there should be no problem. Also, it weighs less than half of my former Holton 345, so that really makes it portable.
The JP379B very nearly got the nod from me before I purchased my 191. The example I've played would do everything I'd want in a concert band horn, and it certainly is compact. It's really worth a solid look.
I listed the 4/4 King because for anybody who has put in many years with a 5/4 or 6/4 tuba the 2341 feels very similar but compact. The one I used for almost a year felt and sounded to me like a Baby BAT, and probably had better built-in intonation than my 345. It's the largest Old Man Tuba I'd recommend, but certainly a viable choice, along with the others listed in this thread.

Tim

[bort2.0]

Doc, your suggestion has the makings of a good and interesting thread. Especially now that I am 85 and a bit short on air supply. I can no longer think about my dearly loved Cerveny 601-5MR which I sold to a young man in El Paso, Texas. That horn was an air hog, but the buyer was a large guy with plenty of steam. I'll be looking forward to how this thread develops. It should provide some very helpful information for all of us.

Ace

Ace, do you still play at all?

[bloke]

...most any tuba that is EASY to play in tune and is fabricated of sheet brass that is only 1/2mm thick (which defines it as EASIER to pick up/carry) would make this list...but anything like this is also fairly EASY to dent.
================================
Wasn't the original pre-politicization-of-tuba-discussion-lists definition of "old man tuba" explained as "any tuba that puts out a good bit of sound without exerting of whole bunch of effort"...OR did I get that wrong...??

[hrender]

You could add the Miraphone 282 to the BBb tuba list.

[bloke]

♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ "It jus' keeps oom-pah-in' aaaaaaaaaaa-looooooooong !!!!"

[cjk]

As I become yet closer and closer to being an old man, I'd consider any .68x" bore 4/4-ish bodied tuba to be an "old man's tuba".

I'm expecting "lesser effort needed" than "results out".

* Conn 52j/54j/56j
* Getzen G50/Canadian Brass CB50
* Eastman EBC632/EBC832
* fixed bell King 2341

Edit: Just to be clear, I mean you get more results out of it than effort you put into it.

[bloke]

hmm...ok, then...

I suppose I'll include the Thorette (M-S 5450-11) in this general group of instruments.



Bell - 19"
Height - 32"
Bore - .687"/750"
Weight - 23 lbs.

[Doc]

Weights and measurements, people... weights and measurements (and associated horn porn). Let’s make it concrete for folks.

Pretty please

[matt g]

Some of the consideration here has to be compactness of the horn in addition to the weight.

Having a tuba that’s easier to “hug” while playing and as such is closer to the player’s center of mass is going to be a significant factor for reducing fatigue over longer playing times.

It’s like that Willson 3050. It weighs about what most other 5V production line CC tubas weigh, but the mass is so spread out that it feels really heavy.

One other factor is the horn having a solid spot to grab that’s well-braced when picking it up. A solid interface makes things feel lighter as well.

[kingrob76]

If weight and bulk are the enemy, the Yamaha 621 (in any key) - and its associated knock off from Mack Brass - are very good places to start. Small, light instruments that don't require a lot of effort to play.

[ProAm]

Do the Conn 2/3/4/5J models fit this category?

[matt g]

Do the Conn 2/3/4/5J models fit this category?

I’d think so. One of these days I’d like to get a really nice 2J or 3J.

@kingrob76, absolutely the YxB-621 of whatever key would qualify. The Mack Brass CC with the slightly bigger bell and fifth rotor would be in the running for a petite CC.

[cjk]

Do the Conn 2/3/4/5J models fit this category?

IMHO, I would not. Some people might, I don't think you get more out of those than you put into them.

[Doc]

...easy to play, easy to wield, easy to carry tubas including weight and dimensions?

Some of the consideration here has to be compactness of the horn in addition to the weight.

Having a tuba that’s easier to “hug” while playing and as such is closer to the player’s center of mass is going to be a significant factor for reducing fatigue over longer playing times.

One other factor is the horn having a solid spot to grab that’s well-braced when picking it up. A solid interface makes things feel lighter as well.

^^^Yes, sir. These (but not limited to these only) are the types of considerations I am hoping people can/will offer.

[Doc]

Do the Conn 2/3/4/5J models fit this category?

IMHO, I would not. Some people might, I don't think you get more out of those than you put into them.

Having something easy to play is important. If it makes more sound for less work, that’s a bonus.

[2nd tenor]

Having something easy to play is important. If it makes more sound for less work, that’s a bonus.

Absolutely and particularly so as Senior years approach. I’m not that old but some things are just plain heavier than they used to be so I have to be more skilled and mindful about what I want to do ... and I’m not going to be getting any stronger. An older friend no longer buys milk in 4 pint / 2 litre plastic bottles, they are now simply too heavy for her to lift. I laughed when she told me but I also thought about it. In one Band I played in the BBb player eventually gave up in his early eighties, he was a big guy and had been very strong but now found the supplied instrument too heavy and too bulky. I feel sure that he could have played for a few more years if he’d had a smaller lighter BBb.

There’s the crunch really. If Old Men are to continue to play then their Tuba needs to be relatively light and compact whilst still being responsive and sounding reasonably good. Once you start to trim it right back that specification leads towards a small bell Tuba with just three non-compensating valves; perhaps that points us towards what are now - perhaps not that helpfully - labelled as 3/4 sized high school/youth (market) Tubas ... many of those youngsters are adult sized people and stronger than older people. I’m sure that there are some American Tubas that fit that description (the Holton Collegiate BB450R compact 3-valve tuba comes to mind) and there are some old Bessons like that too (the 787?). Yamaha also make some good youth market instruments. Small bore would be helpful too, easier on the lungs.

The Brass Band that I play in has one guy who’s about to turn ninety, he’s a big guy who plays a Cornet on one of the easier seats. If he played Tuba then he’d have had to stop playing because the weight would have been to much for him, well unless we found him a really light and easy to move one. Assuming that I’m still well then I’d like to be Brass playing when I’m ninety, sorting out the right instrument in the preceding decades might well be an important part of making that possible.

[JESimmons]

I don’t have a Conn 10J anymore to measure, but that would definitely be one.