Old Man Tubas... a list or repository?

[bloke]

My first-batch-shipped 5450 weighs about 24 1/2 pounds without mouthpiece (not 26), which makes me think that those first instruments were/are really not fully “production“ instruments.
The difference between an inch or so of bell radius it’s not going to add that much (1.5 lbs.) weight.

Not that I have dented the instrument myself, but I removed a few small dents when I first bought it, and the outer bows are a bit on the delicate side.

[bone-a-phone]

If weight and bulk are the enemy, the Yamaha 621 (in any key) - and its associated knock off from Mack Brass - are very good places to start. Small, light instruments that don't require a lot of effort to play.

I'll put in a vote for the Mack 422, knockoff of the Yammy 621BBb. I'm not that old yet, but I've got some shoulder issues, and try to keep the weight down. I got a nice compliment about the sound out of the 422 when I played covering the bass bone part in a trombone quartet.

Specs if they haven't been added yet:

Size: 3/4
Bore: .689, .707 4th valve
Bell: 16"
height: 32"
Number of Valves: 4
price: $1995

Here's Tom with the 422:

tomwith422.jpg (92.78 KiB) Viewed 2050 times

[Three Valves]

^^^^

...and -20lbs

[hrender]

The King isn't bad, about 20-21 lbs, I think, w/o the gig bag which is itself pretty light. Since it's a fixed recording bell the "bigger" issue is the size of the thing.

The Martin weighs more, but it's not terrible, except when I schlep it in the hard cases, then it's around 75-80lbs. I've gotten used to it, but when I first started playing it I was recovering from a torn quad tendon, and it was definitely a challenge going up and down stairs with it.

[hrender]

I put the data into an Excel file to make it easier to read. See attached. (I'm an IT guy, what can I say.)

tuba_weights.zip

(9.24 KiB) Downloaded 59 times

For folks who don't like Excel:

Tuba Weights

• Alexander 163 4v Hand Made raw brass: 22.6 lbs
• Alexander 163 5v Hand Made raw brass, highly modified: 24.4 lbs
• B&F Kaiser BBb: 20.9 lbs
• B&S "Musica" tall 4/4 CC 5v: 21.6 lbs
• B&S 3301 4/4 BBb (4v): 19 lbs
• B&S 4197 : 24 lbs
• B&S F 5valve : 15.4 lbs
• B&S Model 101 4RV CC: 17.2 lbs
• B&S Musica tall BBb (4v): 20 lbs
• B&S PT8 5v hand made raw brass : 16.2 lbs
• B&S PT8 6v Gold brass hand raw brass model: 17.7 lbs
• BMB J 445 F (large bell): 19.2 lbs
• Buescher Helicon 3FP Eb: 13.5 lbs
• Cerveny 6/4 Giant Helicon 4v F: 14.4 lbs
• Cerveny 653: 14 lbs
• Cerveny CCB-481 4RV CC: 17.5 lbs
• Cerveny Helicon 4RV F: 13.2 lbs
• Cerveny Kaiser 3RV BBb: 19.4 lbs
• Cerveny Kaiser 4RV F/Eb: 15.4 lbs
• Cerveny Kaiser Helicon 4RV F: 16.5 lbs
• Cerveny Tornister 3RV BBb: 7.4 lbs
• Conn 20J 3TP BBb: 27.5 lbs
• Conn 25J: 31 lbs
• Conn 28J: 23 lbs
• Conn 2J CC: 16 lbs
• Conn 32J BBb: 24 lbs
• Dalyan Apollo CC 4/4, four valve: 21 lbs
• GB-50/G-50 5-valve CC/Stofer 5-valve CC: 23 lbs
• Gronitz lacquer piston F: 18.3 lbs
• Gronitz Tuba 4RV BBb: 17.0 lbs
• Holton 109: 31 lbs
• J. Low Kaiser Tuba 4RV BBb: 17.8 lbs
• John Packer JP379CC Sterling C Tuba: 26 lbs
• Kiev Helicon 3RV BBb: 16.8 lbs
• King 1235B 3FP Eb: 15.3 lbs
• King 1241 Tuba 4FP BBb: 19.5 lbs
• King 1258 Sousaphone 4FP BBb: 22.4 lbs
• Lignatone Tuba 4RV F: 12.8 lbs
• MACK Brass lacquer 4v travel F tuba: 5.4 lbs
• Mack Brass lacquer 5v F tuba (B&S style): 19.0 lbs
• Marzan (large piston CC): 24 lbs
• Mirafone 184-5U: 17 lbs
• Mirafone 186 BBb (1967): 18.0 lbs
• Mirafone 186 BBb (1974): 18.75 lbs
• Miraphone 1291 CC: 22 lbs
• Miraphone 182 BBb (1997): 19.25 lbs
• Miraphone 186 5U CC (1965 vintage): 20.1 lbs
• Miraphone 188 (gold brass): ~22 lbs
• Miraphone 191-4V: 23 lbs
• MW 5450 Thor in silver plate weighs: 27 lbs
• MW 5450 Thor Silver 19" bell: 27.3 lbs
• Neptune (rotary): 25 lbs
• Nirschl Kaiser Bb 5valve+trigger (B&F copy): 26.4 lbs
• Nirschl York: 24.6 lbs
• Olds Fiberglass: 15 lbs
• Pepper Helicon 3FP Eb: 12.5 lbs
• Rudy Meinl 4/4 CC: low 20s
• Schuster Army 4RV BBb: 14.8 lbs
• St. Pete Model 200 3RV BBb: 14.4 lbs
• MW 30: ~20 lbs
• Weril 4 piston valves, 3/4 CC tuba: 14 lbs
• Wessex Grand 5 valve lacquer: 30.4 lbs
• Willson 3050 RZ: 25.5 lbs
• Willson 3050 RZ: 25.3 lbs
• Wisemann 900: 23.2 lbs
• Yamaha 621 CC: 15.6 lbs
• Yamaha YCB-661 5RV CC: 21.2 lbs
• Yamayork: 20.7 lbs
• York Helicon 3FP BBb: 23.2 lbs
• York Monster 3FP Eb: 15.6 lbs
• York Monster 3TP Eb: 15.7 lbs
• ZO 6/4 Silver York model Hand Made: 23.8 lbs
• ZO lacquer funky 5v travel Tuba in F: 13.3 lbs

Some of the weights look off, and there are a few duplicates with different weights, but I don't own the data.

[Ace]

Ace, do you still play at all?

Don't own a tuba at present. However, I do play everyday in my home. I still have enough air left to play my French horn and valve trombone in C.

[Doc]

I had a reminder that I'm not getting any younger and why having an OMT can make sense:

I had a long weekend of gigs, which is great. But the loading/unloading of tubas, basses, amps, speakers, large PA system, etc. took its toll. I was helping pack up the PA (full PA system) after the last gig on Sunday, and I trashed my back. Not sure exactly how or the exact moment, but I did. It all really set in on the ride home, and I had hell getting out of the Jeep. I don't have back problems, but I'm not above doing something stupid to get it out of whack once in a while. And being a fat@$$ doesn't help.

I just returned to work today (after spending two days in bed, in my chair, stretching on the floor, lots of work on the back and muscles by my bride, plenty of OTC dope and ointments), but I'm moving slowly. I did practice last night and also run over a piece my wife and I are working up, but I did so very gingerly. Not easy, but doable with great care not to tweak muscles and spine. On Monday, I didn't even care about lifting a mouthpiece to buzz it. If this were a regular condition, or I if I had diminished strength due to age, inactivity, or some other injury, I can see why a small tuba might be the difference in playing or not playing. I was glad yesterday that I have a couple of lighter sheet brass instruments. And I was glad I have tuba stands.

[prairieboy1]

I had a reminder that I'm not getting any younger and why having an OMT can make sense:

I had a long weekend of gigs, which is great. But the loading/unloading of tubas, basses, amps, speakers, large PA system, etc. took its toll. I was helping pack up the PA (full PA system) after the last gig on Sunday, and I trashed my back. Not sure exactly how or the exact moment, but I did. It all really set in on the ride home, and I had hell getting out of the Jeep. I don't have back problems, but I'm not above doing something stupid to get it out of whack once in a while. And being a fat@$$ doesn't help.

I just returned to work today (after spending two days in bed, in my chair, stretching on the floor, lots of work on the back and muscles by my bride, plenty of OTC dope and ointments), but I'm moving slowly. I did practice last night and also run over a piece my wife and I are working up, but I did so very gingerly. Not easy, but doable with great care not to tweak muscles and spine. On Monday, I didn't even care about lifting a mouthpiece to buzz it. If this were a regular condition, or I if I had diminished strength due to age, inactivity, or some other injury, I can see why a small tuba might be the difference in playing or not playing. I was glad yesterday that I have a couple of lighter sheet brass instruments. And I was glad I have tuba stands.

I hear you! An OMT is something I have been looking for as well. Everything takes longer to heal as I am finding out and as well, my being a fat@ss makes it harder also.

[bloke]

rhetorical question to all...
(I've dropped a lot of pounds, and could stand to drop some MORE...so I'm NOT "lecturing"...)

Isn't losing 30 lbs. (from oneself) more beneficial and less traumatic than selling an "amazing" tuba that weighs 26 lbs (or whatever) and replacing it with a "pretty good" one that weighs 20 lbs (or whatever...realizing not very much net loss in overall "tote") ?

[bort2.0]

rhetorical question to all...
(I've dropped a lot of pounds, and could stand to drop some MORE...so I'm NOT "lecturing"...)

Isn't losing 30 lbs. (from oneself) more beneficial and less traumatic than selling an "amazing" tuba that weighs 26 lbs (or whatever) and replacing it with a "pretty good" one that weighs 20 lbs (or whatever...realizing not very much net loss in overall "tote") ?

It depends on your starting point.

If you weigh 300 pounds, then yes.
If you weigh 170 pounds (as I did when I sold my 26 pounder)... then no. Weighing 140 pounds seems like far too "small" for me. It's cold up here. I need to pack in the warmth!

To say it another way -- losing 30 pounds doesn't necessarily make you stronger.

[Doc]

rhetorical question to all...
(I've dropped a lot of pounds, and could stand to drop some MORE...so I'm NOT "lecturing"...)

Isn't losing 30 lbs. (from oneself) more beneficial and less traumatic than selling an "amazing" tuba that weighs 26 lbs (or whatever) and replacing it with a "pretty good" one that weighs 20 lbs (or whatever...realizing not very much net loss in overall "tote") ?

I'm definitely in favor of losing 30lbs.

I'm definitely NOT in favor of selling amazing tubas.

Yes - losing 30lbs and keeping a large tuba is a wash. After losing 30lbs, one would definitely feel better when toting a tuba, and certainly feel better in all those times (nearly all the time) when one is not schlepping said brass around. Losing 50lbs is like taking a sack of feed off your shoulders (or two tubas). But not all can lose 50lbs. Or 30lbs. But better health and strength is certainly achievable by all the skinny little farts who don't need to lose body fat. I don't feel like strength has ever been an issue for me, but being overweight is a problem. Maybe if I lost 50lbs, I could replace it with two new tubas...?

If, of course, we were all smart and wise (instead of smart@$$es and wisenheimers), we would all be eating whole foods in sensible portions, training reasonably with weights, and getting plenty of rest to give ourselves the best bang for the buck as we age regarding health, strength, stamina, and comfort, all of which are helpful with playing large instruments.

[Three Valves]

...smart@$$es and wisenheimers

Hey!!

[Doc]

I hear you! An OMT is something I have been looking for as well. Everything takes longer to heal as I am finding out and as well, my being a fat@ss makes it harder also.

Keeping yourself in shape and in good health is important for all kinds of reasons. Aside from overall health, it really helps with playing a wind instrument, and it helps mitigate/minimize the effects of the aging. I've lost 10lbs this month, but I sure as heck don't feel it today. When I was in my mid-twenties, I could fight with drunks and idiots and, save for any scrapes and dings, feel fine the next day. Now, I'm twice as old, but it takes three days to recover. I ain't trying to do that crap anymore, but sometimes it still happens in my current duties. And, obviously, I run out of gas a lot sooner. And in the current culture, this polyester wears heavy. Dang... I need to retire! I could actually sleep, maybe lose weight, and focus on playing the tuba. Playing tuba would be much more enjoyable if I wasn't fat, tired, constantly stressed, and working 80-90hrs per week.

Despite my Symphonie being very lightweight and maneuverable, and despite having an F for my only tuba for several years, I'm not sure I'd want to do everything on F tuba. I don't know that as I age, F tuba will require more maintenance practice, but having something lightweight and plug-n-play has its appeal. For me, that idea has always seemed to center around a Miraphone 184 CC, Miraphone 282 BBb (obvious choices for a Miraphone fan like me), or possibly the MW 2011RA (with which I have NO experience). Tom's 3/4 CC Yammie thing seems to have promise also, and I would definitely like to try one. My blokeified 186 is pretty light for its size - I think I'll weigh it to see where it comes in. I sure wouldn't want to sell it (or any of my other ones) out of perceived or real necessity.

[Doc]

...smart@$$es and wisenheimers

Hey!!

I resemble that remark!

[bloke]

I've always loved that song: "Oom My Pah-Pah"...
(Not really...I wish no one would ever request it again.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dWOsP_wly0

[Three Valves]

@bloke How did M-O-T-H-E-R go over??

[bloke]

@bloke How did M-O-T-H-E-R go over??

We played it with each eighth note roughly @ MM = 100 (ie. each measure of the original sort of = two four-beat measures), with a jazz beat.
We did a chorus, two solos and an out chorus.
None of the patrons/club members said anything...They were all busy eating food.
btw...They fed us shrimp, prime rib, amazing new potatoes, a salad, and a triple dessert, when we were done.

Speaking of old men...
This guy (astonishing pianist...He was on those two "Hot Cotton Jazz Band" lp's recorded in 1984) plays an hour of tennis every morning, and has - well... - a "girlfriend". He's in his mid-80's
https://www.facebook.com/rene.koopman.18

The banjo player https://www.facebook.com/dan.wilkinson.9693 (also on those 1984 lp's, and also well into his 80's) tours with Billy Dean (this guy: https://www.facebook.com/countrysingerbillydean ) just for fun...He's a zillionaire commercial real estate tycoon, and still very active in that, as well.

[Doc]

I've always loved that song: "Oom My Pah-Pah"...
(Not really...I wish no one would ever request it again.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dWOsP_wly0

Never cared for that tune much, except for THIS version:

[Three Valves]

This is page 3.

Is it OK to make suppository comments now??

[Doc]

This is page 3.

Is it OK to make suppository comments now??

Depends...