Old Eb horn of Unknown Origin

[travisd]

Wife picked this up at an auction last week. After getting it home, seems to be an Eb horn of some sort - well loved, nothing particularly special - lots of repairs over the years it seems. Has a small-shank receiver.

Engraving is "USBANDMASTER" with what seems to be an outline of the continental US. We dug up some info that says that this might have been a stencil made specifically for the Salvation Army, but there's no other SA references anywhere.

Valves work, slides move, it makes sounds (which is more than can be said for some of the other online auction finds that have followed us home... )





Any idea what the history of this might be?

[kingrob76]

nice bag in the corner ;-)

[bort2.0]

nice bag in the corner ;-)

Forget that, dig the organ!

[kingrob76]

nice bag in the corner ;-)

Forget that, dig the organ!

Zero chance I'm talking about Junior's organ....

[The Big Ben]

`The Sally Anne had their own manufacturing shop and the brand they had was "Salvationist". The horn were British style and very tough because they had to protect themselves from those who did not like them and did not like their playing.

They built their instruments themselves and as a training program for potential repair techs:

https://www.galpinsociety.org/index_htm ... s%20LR.pdf

Seems John Packer works with them today:

https://www.jpmusicalinstruments.com/ne ... ation-army

[humBell]

`The Sally Anne had their own manufacturing shop and the brand they had was "Salvationist". The horn were British style and very tough because they had to protect themselves from those who did not like them and did not like their playing.

They built their instruments themselves and as a training program for potential repair techs:

https://www.galpinsociety.org/index_htm ... s%20LR.pdf

Seems John Packer works with them today:

https://www.jpmusicalinstruments.com/ne ... ation-army

A battle tuba?!

[2nd tenor]

IIRC Bandmaster was a Salvation Army model. To me it looks more European in origin than British though. The tuning slide is long, I wonder if it was originally built in high pitch.

[travisd]

nice bag in the corner ;-)

Forget that, dig the organ!

Zero chance I'm talking about Junior's organ....

Had to go there, Coach??

The organ came from Wife's grandmother. Nobody here has yet bothered to figure out how to play it. It needs a liberal dose of Deoxit on the circuits I suspect.

IIRC Bandmaster was a Salvation Army model. To me it looks more European in origin than British though. The tuning slide is long, I wonder if it was originally built in high pitch.

Good question. The MTS seems to match the rest - would all of them have been changed to lower the pitch?

[donn]

The MTS seems to match the rest - would all of them have been changed to lower the pitch?

Another way to look at it, the slide has been pulled out like about a foot. That way, it's long. You did that, to bring the pitch to A=440hz?

I guess in principle maybe the other slides ought to be out a ways to match, but you'll know.

[travisd]

The MTS seems to match the rest - would all of them have been changed to lower the pitch?

Another way to look at it, the slide has been pulled out like about a foot. That way, it's long. You did that, to bring the pitch to A=440hz?

I guess in principle maybe the other slides ought to be out a ways to match, but you'll know.

Pulled it to there to get Eb be roughly in-tune on an iPhone tuner app. Haven't gone thru really and tried to set all of the slides yet really.

[arpthark]

The nickel silver tubing on the valve circuits is kind of a giveaway that this is a continental European instrument, yeah?

Also, that's an interesting artistic interpretation of the contiguous 48 on the emblem!

[donn]

I don't know about any iPhone tuner particularly, but I expect very likely it can show pitch frequency, in Hz. If you push the slide back in and play Eb below the staff, I think a High Pitch Eb should be ca. 80Hz. Modern A=440Hz pitch Eb is 77.78Hz, I'm just multiplying by 456/440. As you probably know, Salvation Army was a late holdout on High Pitch.

I like that they made them stronger, to stand up to music critics. I suppose they had already tried playing better.

[2nd tenor]

I don't know about any iPhone tuner particularly, but I expect very likely it can show pitch frequency, in Hz. If you push the slide back in and play Eb below the staff, I think a High Pitch Eb should be ca. 80Hz. Modern A=440Hz pitch Eb is 77.78Hz, I'm just multiplying by 456/440. As you probably know, Salvation Army was a late holdout on High Pitch.

I like that they made them stronger, to stand up to music critics. I suppose they had already tried playing better.

I’d add to the above.

The UK Eb’s adopted the lead pipe going straight into the the valves and the main tuning slide being after the valve section, and they also have a more equal lower bow. Well that’s what a I recall seeing over the years. The Tuba in the picture looks like an old Amati to me. http://www.amatiinstruments.com/tuba/aeb_211.php
https://www.amati.cz/en/

Some electronic tuners can have A= xyz adjusted in them.
The value (frequency) of high pitch is open to debate and then there’s ambient temperature to consider too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch
I think that standard concert pitch is A440 at 60 degrees Fahrenheit, and I think that warmer temperatures make an instrument go sharp … it’s rather warm at the moment and what’s an appropriate tuner to check a tuba with.

The Salvation Army used to go to places where their message wasn’t always welcome and at some points in time they took their own ‘guards’ with them. Playing was often outdoors and so an expensive and easily damaged instrument wouldn’t have been ideal. Of course money for the finest instruments was tight too.

At one point the Salvation Army used to make its own instruments and sell them with their own merchant geared to supplying product to members. In perhaps diminish form such trading arms still exist:

https://satradecentral.org/

https://www.sps-shop.com/instruments


For what it’s worth I think that the tuning slide water key would be easier to use if the tuning slide were reversed. If it was built in high pitch then to lower the pitch a loop of tube can be added to the main tuning slide, the other slides can have spacing collars permanently added - well that is how I have seen it done.