Geib mouthpiece on a Martin Eb?

[russiantuba]

I’m not sure if an AGR would help.

On my Gronitz F, my Miraphone C4 didn’t fit in and wobbled and I wanted my tech to set the gap for that mouthpiece. He came in and said everything was done wrong, and he would fix it for a standard F tuba shank.

You might want to consider changing the receiver instead of trying to find a specific mouthpiece if you change mouthpieces a lot.

I do know of a bloke who sells a Geib style mouthpiece that has so many rim options and *might* be able to make a shank that works if you don’t want to change receivers. He lives in rural Tennessee.

[2nd tenor]

For my Martin medium Eb... I've been using a Denis Wick 1 pretty much since I got the horn, since it's got the right shank size. It's a pretty large mouthpiece for a smaller horn, but honestly, it works quite well. I would like to stay with a larger mouthpiece.

I just don't love the rim. I have dealt with it for quite a while, I would like to try something different now.

Would a Geib style mouthpiece work well on a tuba like this? I don't have anything to test out right now... and if I liked it, I'd need a small shank in it.

One of my all time favorite sorry I sold it mouthpieces was a James R New Geib... wouldn't mind ordering another if 1) seems like a good match for this kind of tuba and 2) if I can know the shank size measurement to tell him.

Or instead of special ordering something, is there such thing as a American shank to small shank adapter? I can't imagine there is, but why not ask? :-)

Any thoughts or help to offer?

Thanks!

As the thread has wandered a bit, but has still come up with some ideas, I’m wondering what your thoughts are now?

What was it in particular that you didn’t like about the Wick 1? If it’s just the rim width then maybe the outside could be turned down and re-plated?

This guy is reasonably well known in the UK - and maybe Doc can suggest others - and being here (we used a lot of small shank pieces) he might be in a position to help. Just a thought rather than a recommendation. https://www.mrtuba.com/

[bort2.0]

Thanks @2nd tenor!

In general... I really like the rim of the Geib mouthpieces (the more "original" the better!). I'm just concerned that as a mouthpiece that works well on a huge tuba, it may not be a great match for a small tuba. And without a proper receiver or something to hold it in place, any trial of a bigger shank mouthpiece would be too affected by the lousy connection of mouthpiece to tuba. It's almost as if the tuba and it's small receiver are acting as a checkpoint to not bother trying something so big.

For as much as I've changed tubas over the years, I don't often change mouthpieces. I used my Thein RCC for a solid 5 or 6 years up until the great sell-off of last summer. Never letting that mouthpiece go. But it's Euro shank, so there's way no chance it'll fit in the Martin.

[cjk]

will Thein make you a small shank RCC?

[bort2.0]

Last time I asked about mouthpieces, a year or two ago, they said they weren't doing custom orders anymore

I guess they are focusing more on the off-the-shelf Thein stuff...

[cjk]

bloke's #2 rim is similarly narrow to original Geib mouthpieces.

[arpthark]

Last time I asked about mouthpieces, a year or two ago, they said they weren't doing custom orders anymore

I guess they are focusing more on the off-the-shelf Thein stuff...

Those tubas are big sellers, you know.

[bort2.0]

Well since it was mentioned... If I were to custom order something, what measurement should I give them to ensure its the correct size? I know it's been posted here before... The end diameter?

I'm no good with calipers, I can measure the end of the Denis Wick, but I don't trust my measurement for accuracy.

A few years ago, I asked Jim New to make me a Geib with a larger backbore (before the Stofer Air Corps, BTW :)). Hrmm... Small shank and a larger backbore?

[cjk]

Well since it was mentioned... If I were to custom order something, what measurement should I give them to ensure its the correct size? I know it's been posted here before... The end diameter?

I'm no good with calipers, I can measure the end of the Denis Wick, but I don't trust my measurement for accuracy.

A few years ago, I asked Jim New to make me a Geib with a larger backbore (before the Stofer Air Corps, BTW :)). Hrmm... Small shank and a larger backbore?

.498" is what i keep getting when measuring my British shank Sellmansberger Imperial.

Matt Walter's tuba mouthpiece shank primer says this:

SMALL EUROPEAN: Having a diameter of .490" at small end of shank, this size is offered by Dennis Wick in the sizes 1 through 5. Just make sure you order the one without the "L" in the model number. This size is most commonly used on old Besson tubas and old American Eb tubas. I hear this referred to as the Eb tuba size. Some old German, etc. 3/4 size BBb tubas have also shown up with that receiver size. If you are having trouble figuring out what small size shank your old tuba needs, it is about the same size as a large shank trombone mouthpiece. Borrow one from a trombonist and see for yourself. You can order a Denis Wick mouthpiece, or to have a wider variety of mouthpieces to choose from, consider replacing the receiver for about the price of a mouthpiece.

[cjk]

@bort2.0 I really would have a repairman look at and quote replacing or reaming out the receiver before you go out and order a custom shanked mouthpiece for the smaller one.

[2nd tenor]

@bort2.0 I really would have a repairman look at and quote replacing or reaming out the receiver before you go out and order a custom shanked mouthpiece for the smaller one.

Plus one.

Of course, in practise, that might not be the simple way forward it seems to be but, to me at least, it looks like the most sensible way to go. Why not ask the brass technicians for their expert opinions?

[bort2.0]

@bort2.0 I really would have a repairman look at and quote replacing or reaming out the receiver before you go out and order a custom shanked mouthpiece for the smaller one.

Plus one.

Of course, in practise, that might not be the simple way forward it seems to be but, to me at least, it looks like the most sensible way to go. Why not ask the brass technicians for their expert opinions?

The general issue is that the cost of the work probably exceeds the value of the horn. And no sale of the tuba is going to recover that.

At least there's half a chance that someone would want to buy the mouthpiece later on.

[donn]

Might be able to get the reamer for under $100, and make it tool #1 in the tubaforum.net traveling tool lending library.

[cjk]

The general issue is that the cost of the work probably exceeds the value of the horn. And no sale of the tuba is going to recover that.

At least there's half a chance that someone would want to buy the mouthpiece later on.

I may be out of touch, but don't most of those old Eb tubas sell for $500 or more?
A receiver swap is likely $100 or less?
A custom shanked mouthpiece is $300 or more?

[arpthark]

The general issue is that the cost of the work probably exceeds the value of the horn. And no sale of the tuba is going to recover that.

At least there's half a chance that someone would want to buy the mouthpiece later on.

I may be out of touch, but don't most of those old Eb tubas sell for $500 or more?
A receiver swap is likely $100 or less?
A custom shanked mouthpiece is $300 or more?

Was recently quoted $50 for a receiver swap.

[2nd tenor]

@bort2.0 I really would have a repairman look at and quote replacing or reaming out the receiver before you go out and order a custom shanked mouthpiece for the smaller one.

Plus one.

Of course, in practise, that might not be the simple way forward it seems to be but, to me at least, it looks like the most sensible way to go. Why not ask the brass technicians for their expert opinions?

The general issue is that the cost of the work probably exceeds the value of the horn. And no sale of the tuba is going to recover that.

At least there's half a chance that someone would want to buy the mouthpiece later on.

Thanks for those answers.

If you were able to pick up a standard small shank mouthpiece, of a type that you like, for reasonable money then that’s both a relatively easy and risk free way forward. If you need a custom mouthpiece then I’d be surprised if you didn’t take a financial hammering on its resale.

As others have said the economics and costs don’t seem to match their own experiences and projections.

Of course change, in this case to a Tuba, can have unintended consequences. I do wonder who, besides Wick, sells an off of the shelf range of small shank Tuba mouthpieces … surely some expert on here must know. Laskey? Kelly? Surely shop like Long and McQuade could suggest some options - and Mr Tuba (in The UK) has already been mentioned.
https://www.long-mcquade.com/department ... pagination

[donn]

Josef Klier supposedly has a 12.5mm option for tuba mouthpieces (= .492 in), but it's big catalogue of mouthpieces and not so many are widely available, so whether or not they make them as factory stock or not, either way I doubt you'd find them anywhere.

[Mary Ann]

off on a tangent as usual; what is a "Geib style mouthpiece" that makes it "Geib?" What's different about it?

[bort2.0]

off on a tangent as usual; what is a "Geib style mouthpiece" that makes it "Geib?" What's different about it?

Very roughly ... It's sort of a pear shape, not quite bowl or funnel. Pretty deep, and a very thin and sharp rim. Around 32.7 mm diameter I think. Typically a small backbore, which is a bit old-school and pre-" everything should be bigger" when the CSO guys started drilling out their backbores.

I like the rim more than any other, and all around it works great for me on rotary tubas of all sizes and generally on any large tuba. So, I'm curious how it would work on a smaller instrument.

Perhaps that's the question more than my specific case... Would a Geib mouthpiece work well on a small tuba?

[Mary Ann]

Nope it was really a theory question. Because of my size, 32 - 33mm cups are just too wide, and I'm basically free-buzzing in them. So the mpcs that are available to me because of my size are not that many. Just was curious about what made a Geib a Geib. I'm off the PT 64 and on to a narrower and deeper cup, which is working for me really well. Not some fancy-dan piece either, it's a JK 8C, out of my box-o'-cups from long ago.