College Audition Help

[wgw327]

Hey all! I will be a high school senior in the fall and am looking to use music, specifically tuba, as my way into a top-level university. As such, I will be auditioning in November and am looking for good repertoire to play. Currently, I'm working on the Gregson Concerto, but am looking for two other pieces to play as well.

Pieces I've Learned (for reference): Marcello Sonata in F, Capuzzi Andante and Rondo, Vaughan Williams Six Studies, Lebedev Concerto in One Movement...to name a few.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[matt g]

The solo rep you have under you belt should be fine, provided it’s in good order.

It’s also worth looking up most of the popular excerpts and running those down as well.

Scales in all keys/modes/etc.

[2nd tenor]

For anyone considering studying music at College / University I’d simply ask the question what are you going to do with it? Music is for fun, enjoy playing, but don’t expect it to pay your bills because it rarely leads to a decent career.

[wgw327]

I don't plan to major in music, but rather to use it to help my chances of acceptance into university.

As for rep, I think I'm looking at playing the Haddad Suite, Vocalise by Rachmaninoff, and Handel Sonata No. 6. Does this sound good enough?

[matt g]

I don't plan to major in music, but rather to use it to help my chances of acceptance into university.

As for rep, I think I'm looking at playing the Haddad Suite, Vocalise by Rachmaninoff, and Handel Sonata No. 6. Does this sound good enough?

It’s going to depend on what school you’re trying to get into. I think you’ll want to do more research and see what the profs at the schools you’re looking are are wanting for the audition. What you have may be fine for some schools, insufficient for others, overkill for some.

Having just gone through this process of college applications and acceptance with one of my own kids, being a good player on top of solid academics will help with admittance. However, for scholarships, note that they will often pair the scholarship money with something like playing in ensembles and lessons. Part of the money you get has to be spent on the music school/department. On top of that, ensembles are often a time sink.

I knew engineering students that had music scholarships and in the last year or so of college had to give them up to focus on finishing.

[matt g]

For anyone considering studying music at College / University I’d simply ask the question what are you going to do with it? Music is for fun, enjoy playing, but don’t expect it to pay your bills because it rarely leads to a decent career.

I know some of the current group of posters here are anti-music degree, but don’t let that rhetoric put blinders on.

The OP was pretty clear about using tuba playing as a way to hedge bets at getting into some of the more competitive colleges and universities here in the USA. It’s a real phenomenon. People that have graduated with my kid have gotten into Ivy League schools based on either playing a tough instrument (bassoon) or participating in a less popular sport (wrestling). Several of these schools are admitting less than 5% of applicants, and the applicant pools have impressive academic credentials (3.8+ unweighted GPAs, 1500+ average SATs, etc) so being good at something that fulfills a university need/desire absolutely helps.

[bloke]

The only help I could offer is to point out that - unlike completely understanding how a mathematics formula works in solving a complicated mathematics problem, there is never complete mastery of a piece of music or a solo work. There's always room for improvement, and there's usually room for a lot of improvement. Take your list and greatly improve how you play all of them. None of us have heard you play any of them, but I believe all of us - including you - know that they can all be played much better. There's a lot of room for me to improve every piece I know how to play. We can all listen to established professionals play solo works on YouTube - where they have left recordings - and hear things that could be improved. Go improve !

[2nd tenor]

For anyone considering studying music at College / University I’d simply ask the question what are you going to do with it? Music is for fun, enjoy playing, but don’t expect it to pay your bills because it rarely leads to a decent career.

I know some of the current group of posters here are anti-music degree, but don’t let that rhetoric put blinders on.

The OP was pretty clear about using tuba playing as a way to hedge bets at getting into some of the more competitive colleges and universities here in the USA. It’s a real phenomenon. People that have graduated with my kid have gotten into Ivy League schools based on either playing a tough instrument (bassoon) or participating in a less popular sport (wrestling). Several of these schools are admitting less than 5% of applicants, and the applicant pools have impressive academic credentials (3.8+ unweighted GPAs, 1500+ average SATs, etc) so being good at something that fulfills a university need/desire absolutely helps.

Thanks, informed perspective really helps and being in the UK our education system differs from that in North America. It’s really is a case of simply asking where is what the young person proposes to do going to take them?

For whatever college or university young folks too often get drawn into courses that lead nowhere in particular and graduate with large debts and wasted years - lecturers and professors want to fill their departments and so keep their jobs regardless of whether or not their students would be better served studying something else. Music isn’t the only subject area where young folk study hard only to find that their dreams of a happy future using their degree are shattered when study is finished and reality starts.

To the OP I’d say try to discover and understand what it is that your targeted educational institutions are looking for. How do you tick their boxes and bring something different and better than your competitors. How will or how do they want to use and benefit from your playing? Once you’ve established that then show those people how you can deliver what it is that they want, customise what you show them to showcase both appropriate and rounded skills.

[bloke]

SIDEBAR:

In the US, I suspect (??) that quite a few people end up being music majors (and in the public colleges and universities) because they were not interested in very much of anything else in high school, they were pretty good at playing their instrument, and they feel as though they should get some sort of college degree. The degree program in the United States for secondary school teachers and band directors is set up as a performance degree/conservatory-lite sort of thing (with psychobabble courses shoehorned in) which can be deceptive to students. Yet with all the emphasis on performing on a single instrument, a large percentage really don't graduate being ready to be a single instrument performers for a living - even were there such jobs out there, and most (who maybe didn't spend much time thinking about this while they were earning the degree) come to the reality that what they are qualified to do is that which they some of them were not particularly interested in doing - which is to teach in secondary schools.

================

Whether or not this particular high school student understands how music education degrees are set up in colleges and universities, I don't think it makes much difference because it's my understanding (trying to read and understand their posts) they are not pursuing a music degree but are probably pursuing a music minor, and are seeking a degree with a major in another field.

[matt g]

Yes, OP does not imply he/she is going to be a music major. Simply leveraging playing an instrument to increase chances of getting into a university of his/her choice.

Prices for Ivy League schools are actually no longer well above other schools. As a reference, University of Michigan (out of state) was only slightly cheaper than Brown, Dartmouth, or MIT (not Ivy, but “Ivy Plus”). As a result, these schools are fending off more applicants than ever since the value of the piece of paper actually does matter (simply look at average salaries for various stratum of schools).

As mentioned above, I have evidence of this strategy working. High school students competent at double reed instruments will be an attractive overall package of talents for the school, regardless of the major. The bassoon player I know of from this year is going to do biomedical engineering or something similar at an Ivy League school. My own kid received scholarship offers from schools based on her ability to play trumpet, even though she has clearly stated that her major will be computer science on all applications. She’s not a “great player” (competent enough to play what’s been put in front of her) and plays an instrument a ton of others play. Nonetheless I think it was still worth several thousands of dollars of money (summed over the four years) for her to have playing abilities.

Now that this thread is well off course, I’d still like to say that I really do think that instrumental music has a place in schools. It does help round out a person’s experience, provides transferable skills (scheduling practice, diligence, discipline, etc), and helps the school as well. When I was getting my music degree, it was of tremendous benefit that there were several competent players that were non-music majors* so that the larger ensembles (e.g. orchestra) could simply be fully staffed and play decent repertoire.

Anyhow, I still agree with the notion that playing simple stuff really well (like nailing the Haddad) goes a lot further than playing something really hard poorly.

*most of the non-music majors I ran across were pretty smart kids and getting “real” (STEM) degrees. I married one of them. Later on, when I decided it was time to get honest with myself and make legitimate money, I also got a STEM degree.

[wgw327]

Yes

SIDEBAR:
I don't think it makes much difference because it's my understanding (trying to read and understand their posts) they are not pursuing a music degree but are probably pursuing a music minor, and are seeking a degree with a major in another field.

Exactly... For specifics, I am applying to William and Mary (a top liberal arts program, with an almost unknown music program). I plan to major in Business with a minor in Music. I'll be playing in their ensembles, but am really just looking to use tuba as my way in, rather than as an end goal. Would it help if I attached a few audio files of my current playing ability based on good recordings I've gotten the past few years?

[Mary Ann]

I think OP is on the right track -- when I went back to school (engineering, ha, after music didn't pay enough to provide the financial future I sought) I got a full scholarship just to play in their little orchestra. It was a fine engineering school but not a major university. Too bad it's too late for the OP to be a fantastic bassoonist, but hopefully being a fine tubist will work the charm. I have met SO many incredibly intelligent and accomplished tuba players, and very, very few of them are making a career out of playing. Once again, I think the OP is on the right track.

[bloke]

Yes

SIDEBAR:
I don't think it makes much difference because it's my understanding (trying to read and understand their posts) they are not pursuing a music degree but are probably pursuing a music minor, and are seeking a degree with a major in another field.

Exactly... For specifics, I am applying to William and Mary (a top liberal arts program, with an almost unknown music program). I plan to major in Business with a minor in Music. I'll be playing in their ensembles, but am really just looking to use tuba as my way in, rather than as an end goal. Would it help if I attached a few audio files of my current playing ability based on good recordings I've gotten the past few years?

You do what you think best, but I never advise students to post their playing publicly.
(Often, I sorta think that working players maybe should not, and I very reluctantly do so myself. I've done it in order to demo instruments, gadgetry, and performances of mine that - after listening quite a few times - I judged to be "ready for prime time". Recently, I posted an orchestral excerpt - as I'm learning to play a completely different type of tuba...I'm thinking that I should NOT have done that.)
>> If you have someone working with you on an individual basis who is a "good tuba player" and their playing also sounds artistic, just follow their advice.
If you are working with someone who is a good tuba player yet (perhaps?) their playing doesn't seem to be particularly artistic, then (maybe) ALSO go pay to play for someone near you who sounds more artistic (someone who plays another instrument or sings extremely well, etc.)

(I don't know whether you're studying with some tuba player, don't want to know, and do NOT want to know who they are...Please notice the use of the word, "IF".)

[wgw327]

My main issue is that I'm relatively remote and don't have a good tuba teacher or anyone in my area, so I've mainly relied on self-teaching other than a couple summer music camps. This may be out of line, but this site is full of really awesome people and musicians. Would anyone be willing to offer a few tips if I sent them some recordings via direct message?

[Pat S]

I'm intrigued that being a skilled tuba player will make a prospective engineer more attractive to a college engineering program... but I'll defer to those with more recent college admissions experience.

Pursuing a music minor is great if music floats your boat and you can afford the additional classes to make that happen.

[bloke]

LOL...
There could be people here with egos large enough to presume to be of assistance to you, but why not send some stuff to the tuba person at the school BEFORE you go play in-person, and ask THEM to coach up your audition material...??


https://www.wm.edu/as/music/directory/stone_j.php

[wgw327]

why not send some stuff to the tuba person at the school BEFORE you go play in-person, and ask THEM to coach up your audition material...??


https://www.wm.edu/as/music/directory/stone_j.php

I did not realize this was a thing that people did, but it sounds like a great idea assuming it's considered good college etiquette.

[imnotbrown]

yeah even before i was accepted i got a chance to meet my university's professor and spent some time playing with him. i hope it works out for you and you get some valuable advice.

out of curiosity, you say youre remote and relatively self taught. would this be your first time meeting with a really dedicated tuba guy? id imagine that your school at least has someone they defer to for low brass stuff.

[Pauvog1]

I think the rep you have listed is more than sufficient for a music minor at most places.

You might want to reach out to the tuba professor to see what they have in mind.

I think getting into the music program as a minor is going to usually happen after acceptance into the school itself. Certainly doesn't hurt to ask and look into it. Ask the music department, admissions, the department of your intended major.

[bloke]

why not send some stuff to the tuba person at the school BEFORE you go play in-person, and ask THEM to coach up your audition material...??


https://www.wm.edu/as/music/directory/stone_j.php

I did not realize this was a thing that people did, but it sounds like a great idea assuming it's considered good college etiquette.

Not only this but people play for someone they know is going to be on an audition committee for an orchestra job as well.