Proxxon saw

[Yorkboy]

I’m about to start tubing two separate valve clusters, and with the daunting task of doing all that precision cutting with a jeweler’s saw, I’ve finally decided to take the plunge and get a mini mitre saw - IIRC, the elephant has one of these. Have you got any advice, such as which model to get, which kind of blade to use, tips on using it, etc.?

Thanks!

[LargeTuba]

My question is if it's worth it to get the fancy german one or the cheaper Habor Freight or Homedepot one.

[ken herrick]

Another method, which works very well and does not cost a fortune, is to make a drop saw using a small angle grinder mounted on a stand. I will try to post a picture of mine later today - it's only 3AM now.

[LeMark]

when I was doing my 5th valve project, I just used a normal band saw with a metal cutting blade and it worked great

[the elephant]

1. I only know of one model number for the mini miter saw, and that is the KGS-80.

2. With that, I only use the Proxxon cut-off wheels, which are a fiberglass reinforced "grit" wheel almost exactly like the excellent Dremel 426. (I have not used the red Dremel wheels in decades since I discovered the 426.) I have never used the steel saw blades that came with it. (Six years, still in the wrappers.) These are spendy little guys, but they are durable if you are only cutting brass and nickel silver. I cannot attest to their service life when used on other things. I usually keep about two or three of them in the box and order a couple of new ones each year before I have to use the thing a lot.

3. Mine came trued up nicely from the company. However, over the six years that I have owned this saw, I have had to re-true the once. I am about to have to do this again. It is not hard, but it has to be done correctly, so you need to "RTFM" as they say. HAHAHA!!!

4. It is an awkward size, and I do not have space to use it indoors on my bench. It also makes a huge mess of both metal dust as well as crap from the cutoff wheel. I have a very small foxtail brush that lives in the box with this saw, and I clean the snot out of it after every use, carefully repacking it and storing it in a cabinet.

5. A note about the wheels: Keep in mind that you use the outer edge of a rotary saw's metal blade, and the diameter of that blade never really changes. When you have sharpened it to the point that the teeth no longer function you replace it, but up until that time, the REACH of that blade never changes. However, a cutoff wheel becomes smaller with use. They are a consumable, like steel saw blades, but you consume a lot more of them. Once you have burned down the diameter so that it no longer reaches the far side of the tube you are cutting it is junk on that machine. You will know when it is time to switch discs when you end up with a tooth on the part you cut off that has to be trimmed off. Once this starts happening, it only gets worse, and a new disc is needed. I have a neat adapter for the shank of my Dremel tool that allows me to use these much larger Proxxon wheels, and I have used them for cutting down welds on my Jeep, so they are not junk when you can no longer use them on your saw!

6. I use a really nice kit of deburring tools made in Japan by Noga. It rocks. I use that box of tools just about every time I work on horns. The two triangular scrapers are the best I have ever used, and the inside deburring tool is fantastic! I have not used the other tools that much, but all work well, and the kit is worth the money. The one I use is called THE SET, oddly enough. It is a boxed set of their seven most popular tools. Very handy and well worth having. As I said, I use one or two of these just about every time I work on a horn where soldering (or solder cleanup) is required.

Best of luck. My KGS-80 is one of my favorite tools. It is far better than cutting by hand with a jeweler's saw. If you do not have a metal lathe the Proxxon saw and the Noga deburring tools are an excellent, accurate way to cut and dress slide tubes.

Here is my saw with some of the Noga tools. I had just cut about two dozen tube end rings.


Here are some of those end rings. Once set up, cuts like this are easily repeatable with the goofy, little stop bar they include. Goofy or not, it works.


Every inner and outer slide tube, connecting ferrule and tube end ring was cut and deburred using the three products linked to, above.

[the elephant]

If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me (or post here if you want the discussion public — either is fine).



Wade

[the elephant]

My question is if it's worth it to get the fancy german one or the cheaper Habor Freight or Homedepot one.

The Chinese one that you commonly find (and that is also stenciled to Harbor Freight) is tiny, fitting in the palms of your two hands. It is weak, and the capacity of its jaws is not really large enough. The jaws do not hold the work true unless you are VERY careful with your setup, and they go out of true after about 20 uses of the machine. As in every time you take it out to do some cutting you will have to get your square and screwdrivers out to set it up again.

Further, the supplied steel blade causes horrible, part-ruining tear-out on wooden dowel stock and such, if you need it for wood. The cutoff wheels you can buy for it burn down super fast. They are cheap, but you have to have a large supply of them, and, most importantly, despite being reinforced they can still chip and fling nasty crap into your eyes. There is no guard included, or there wasn't with mine. I used it for about four hours and made the two-hour roundtrip drive to get my money back. Of course, with the magical, manly smell of communist cosmoline acting on me like a drug, singing its song of massive discounts, I just spent the refund on other Chinese crap. However, that crap was actually really good stuff that I still have and use regularly, heh, heh, heh…

Waste neither money nor time on one of these. And ALL of them are the same machine made at the same factory, stenciled to just about any place that sells small machine tools for hobbyists. It is the same deal as the so-called "mini metal lathe" sold by HF, Grizzley, Little Machine Shop, et al. It is a great design but takes a lot of work to get it dialed in and cleaned up. Much like Wessex and Mack versus M&M and Schiller: each importer does cleanup/corrective/setup work to a level that matches their business model. Some do an excellent job (which in the world of cheap, Chinese tools is a very relative term) and some just drop-ship directly from the factory and you get whatever TF arrives on your doorstep, and your customer service experience amounts to being put on Hold indefinitely. The Grizzley version of the lathe can be very good, but the hF one is usually in need of major cleanup and setup work out of the box and will not work right until that work is done. This mini miter saw is the exact, same deal. AVOID.

Proxxon does not make their own stuff, but most of it is either German-made using German-made parts, Eastern European-made with local parts, or (more recently) Taiwanese "high grade" stuff. They do not paint tools in their ugly green unless they are actually excellent stuff. My East German (DDR) lathe was sold by Proxxon years ago. It is nearly identical to mine, save for the ugly paint and the leadscrew handles, and while mostly unknown in the West it is an excellent tool. I think the KGS-80 saw is actually made in Romania, but I am not sure. It is well cast and assembled, though. It has excellent wiring, too.

While not a big name for stuff like this in the US, Proxxon tools are all well made. It is a trustworthy brand. And the prices are very decent for what you get. It is not overpriced. It is expensive gear that is small enough to use in a garage shop.

Do not get one of these. (It just dawned on me that you may have been talking about the much larger one that actually looks like a real compound miter saw, but really small. I have not tried one of them. It might be okay. Some HF stuff is excellent.) EDIT: I just noticed this one has a blade guard. Mine was an earlier version, but it was the same saw. The capacity is supposed to be about an inch, but you can see that the jaws are too low to hold round stock of that size. It just keeps popping out. And the adjustment screws on the backside of the unit come loose all the time.

[UncleBeer]

I'd seen tubing cutters used at various factories, and didn't like the idea of how they crimp the cut, but after trying one, it works just fine. Just gotta flatten the crimp and deburr after.

3113666.jpg (15.23 KiB) Viewed 999 times

[bloke]

My hillbilly method (if there is an existing straight end, farther back) is to scribe a line where I want the finished cut on the tube to be.
I cut it off (close) with a small hacksaw, and use a tone hole file to file down to the line. Afterwards, I chase it with a three-bladed solder-scraper, and (if appropriate) fabricate (or transfer existing) trim rings for the tubing ends.

Those little saws have always seemed pretty cool to me, and I'm rethinking whether I want to go ahead and get one...

[Yorkboy]

Many excellent ideas, thanks - especially elephant, for your well-thought-out info and review!

I really enjoy tubing-out valve sets - it allows me to set things up exactly as I want them, and they are parallel to my satisfaction. However, what I find an extreme drag is the cutting and subsequent truing of multiple edges - if you stop to think about it, that’s six cuts for each slide leg (two for the ferrule, two for the outside tube, and two for the inside tube)....on a four valve set, that adds up to a minimum of 60 individual cuts.....that adds up to a lot of tedious “truing-up” after awhile!

Just pulled the trigger on the Proxxon, and ordered 4 of the blades specified by the elephant ...... do you think that will be enough to get me through about 60 cuts or so?

[the elephant]

Way more. You're good, man.

[Yorkboy]

Way more. You're good, man.

[Yorkboy]

Well, I got the saw today, and once I got used to using it, I declare it a success - it is a real time saver!

My only additional input is that I actually prefer to use the original carbide blade that came with it. For me, the carborundum blade tends to bend ever so slightly, no matter how slow I plunge the saw, and the cuts work out much cleaner with the carbide tooth blade (less cleaning up the cut afterward).

Thanks for everyone’s input (especially you, )

“If you need a machine and don't buy it, then you will ultimately find that you have paid for it and don't have it.” - Henry Ford

[the elephant]

Well, I got the saw today, and once I got used to using it, I declare it a success - it is a real time saver!

My only additional input is that I actually prefer to use the original carbide blade that came with it. For me, the carborundum blade tends to bend ever so slightly, no matter how slow I plunge the saw, and the cuts work out much cleaner with the carbide tooth blade (less cleaning up the cut afterward).

Thanks for everyone’s input (especially you, )

“If you need a machine and don't buy it, then you will ultimately find that you have paid for it and don't have it.” - Henry Ford

Based on your report I will try the carbide blade next time the saw sees the light of day. Thanks for the info!

[Yorkboy]

Elephant, you mentioned earlier that you needed to true your saw after a while. I think my saw is not cutting true (blade slightly off) out of the box.

I haven’t been able to find anywhere how to straighten that out - any advice?

[the elephant]

Instructions? Mine have setup and adjustment sections.

[Yorkboy]

I’ll read the instructions again. I saw how to make cutting adjustments, but nothing about adjusting the vertical plumb of the blade itself.

It’s off by a tiny amount, but just enough that individual cut edges will only meet flush in one spot.

[the elephant]

I think that I loosen the saw from the base and then line it up using a small welding square. I can't remember. I have to do this again soon, but not this week. When I figure it out I will try to film it or at least make a writeup and post it here.

Sorry, it is NOT in the manual; I thought it was. I must have learned how to do it from someone in some online forum. I will keep looking. There is a possibility that it is NOT adjustable, but I am pretty certain that I have done this to my KGS-80…

[Yorkboy]

Thanks, elephant.

FWIW, my 12” Ridgid saw is compound miter, so the blade can be adjusted right or left. I can’t see that the Proxxon is set up this way.....?