nice Hirsbrunner 21 C a̷n̷d̷ ̷S̷t̷.̷ ̷P̷e̷t̷e̷ ̷2̷0̷2̷ ̷n̷i̷c̷k̷e̷l̷ ̷B̷-̷f̷l̷a̷t̷

[bloke]

I'm working on deals on one each of these...

Assuming successful acquisition, I'll do my very best work on both of them (selling in nice-looking/clean/gig-ready condition...Everyone should be familiar with the condition in which I offer instruments for sale) and (as always) will offer them for same here FIRST.

yeah...This is an odd pre-heads-up, but at least I'm letting you folks know that I'm DEFINITELY hoping to SELL them, and not "thinking of" or "considering" selling them.

It should go without saying that their prices will differ from each other.

[arpthark]

It should go without saying that their prices will differ from each other.

What???

[bloke]

It should go without saying that their prices will differ from each other.

What???

OK...They're both the same price, but buy the Hb for full-new-Adams-friggin'-retail-price, and get the St. Pete for free.

' joke...

...but I'll post pics/prices once they're received and ready for sale.

[bloke]

I just removed the #1 rotor from the St. Petersburg for inspection purposes.

This is what I found, so I won't be doing a "chem-clean".
I'm snaking out the mouthpipe tube, and lubricating the rotors, linkage, and slides.





I'd REALLY like to finish getting this one ready for sale TODAY, but - well - back to sousaphones and marching thises-and-thats.

[bloke]

I'm finished picking over the St. Petersburg - other than a shine-up - but there are still five university sousaphones (ten repaired) left to go over.

(Thankfully) those remaining sousaphones are King BODIES ("only" - no bells) with NO cases...so I do NOT have to screw around with those awkward cases (wasting time, and sweating out in the NOT-air-conditioned storage area opening, closing, and latch-repairing them) and I don't have to mess with bell dents or creases. ALSO those beat-up Kings are recently-enough made so as they are thin-walled, so the denting should be easy enough to address. FINALLY, King bracing is sturdy, so (hopefully) not much soldering.

I tooted on the St. Petersburg a little bit...
The intonation is quite easy to deal with; for me, approximately a one-inch pull for A=440 hz.
Yes, the sound is a bit bright/clear ("gruff/punchy" would be a negative way to describe it). I'm thinking that a "very broad version of a 3/4 tuba type of sound" might be pretty accurate...(??)
What I never before quite realized before is that these things are really just B-flat "piggy" tubas.
...so (those of you who look for that rare/used B-flat piggy) this model has been available all along...and a helluva lot less expensive than the Miraphone version of a B-flat piggy: which is the 191.

[bloke]

Our stuff tends to sell rather soon after I post pics...so here are the St. Pete pics...









I didn't have anything large enough for the huge water key cup, so I had to ask Mrs. bloke for one of her largest-diameter oboe cork pads.

[bloke]

As predicted, the St. Petersburg is sold.

I don't have time - right now, to deal with the HB-21.

I'll bump the thread when I do.

thanks!

[DonO.]

Not quite like a “Piggy”, bell a bit taller. Would it be more accurate to call this an “Arion” variant?

[bloke]

Not quite like a “Piggy”, bell a bit taller. Would it be more accurate to call this an “Arion” variant?

As the St. Pete bore size is tremendous (vs. the Arion bore, which is under .800" - specifically: 20mm) I would say "no".

(St. Pete bore is more piggy-like - ie. 21.1mm - kaiser bore, yet compact 4/4 body...like piggy tubas)

Also, the Arion bell throat is much smaller than a Cerveny piggy or St. Pete bell throat.
Arion is basically a 7/8 size body/bell with a "regular - albeit 'darn' - large" bore.

Also, the older St. Pete bell diameter was smaller - more piggy-like.
Newer ones (as with quite a few other models) have suffered from bell diameter inflation.

I'm holding out that (certainly) the older smaller-bell-flare St. Pete's are (basically) B-flat piggy tubas...and their sound is also piggy-like...gruff, if you will.

[matt g]

One of the original selling points of the St. Pete was the tremendous bore diameter. As in there was a bore size to price ratio that was meaningful. I think some of this was a carryover effect from the Alexander tubas.

I’d also agree that the St. Pete is akin to a piggy. It’s a tuba that likes to shout more than speak softly.

If the valves are manufactured well, it’s a decent design. Back in 1993, when one could buy on from die Tuba directly for roughly $1000 new, they were a solid deal.

[bloke]

I fixed up some really crappy Russian tubas for some people, but I've never encountered a St Pete that I could honestly say had crappy rotors. The first time I worked on - one quite a few years ago, I expected them to be crap - due to all of the libel on the internet (ie. the obsolete tuba discussion place), but they were quite well fitted. I ordered a replacement to use in place of one whereby a young scholar had broken off a rotor stem. It only took me about five minutes to get that replacement rotor nicely fitted into the casing.

[arpthark]

young scholar

I always liked the St. Petes fine, never really associated them with Piggies, but you're right. Big bore, compact package, kinda oinky (I say fondly, as a Piggy fan).

I'd like to see a side by side of a Cerveny Pig and one of the rarer St. Pete C tubas. I can't find a Cerveny Piggy to save my life up here. Been looking since 2021.

[bloke]

As someone in business who isn't interested in owning one, I just don't see any money in them. Everyone who has one for sale wants $2,500, and everyone who wants to buy one wants to pay $1,900.

I just don't see any motivation to be a middle man.