something for music majors to consider...

[bloke]

from a university studio teacher friend of mine...
(The student's hometown is New Orleans.)

I feel so stupid

so one of my tuba majors cleared about 5 grand this week from Super Bowl tuba gigs.

Can't read a lick of music.

and I'm here teaching him how to read music when I only made 600 this weekend [orchestra job, incl. mileage]

[Schlitzz]

It still stands, that a pizza delivery guy, can feed a family of 4. Whereas, a viola players……

[tubatodd]

from a university studio teacher friend of mine...
(The student's hometown is New Orleans.)

I feel so stupid

so one of my tuba majors cleared about 5 grand this week from Super Bowl tuba gigs.

Can't read a lick of music.

and I'm here teaching him how to read music when I only made 600 this weekend [orchestra job, incl. mileage]

Serious question: Have the price of private lessons gone up in the last 20 years? Have they adjusted for inflation?

Wouldn't a skilled plumber or electrician also make more than the studio tuba teacher in a typical day? Not sure where exactly I was going with this other than to say, there is a reason they are "starving artists/musicians."

[bloke]

I think another important point is that all arts employment has always been very erratic, but - as far as modern-day music is concerned - the very few people who tend to make the most money are a small percentage of those who do not play other people's notes, and play all their own notes. (Paul McCartney is in his 80's - yes? - and still doesn't read music.) After all, symphony orchestras are really nothing more than cover bands, and most all college level "performance major" studio teaching (facing facts) is geared towards auditioning for playing in symphony orchestras. The fact that someone "wins" a job which - for just a bit - offers musicians the same type of exhilaration as winning first chair in an all-state band in their teen years, doesn't mean that - once employment commences - they don't have to do a bunch of repetitive work for limited wages, with their employers viewing them (from "per service" to "big five") as "the help". If anyone doubts this, just realize that - when Paul McCartney performs - there's no one telling him what he is required to wear.

You asked a question about studio teaching, I believe. Isn't much of that being moved over from full-time to adjunct?

Something that those who decide to get a music education degree - while working hard on playing at the same time - should realize is that they're either going to end up being a band director, a university adjunct, or they're probably not going to end up being in the music business - once they graduate.

[Mary Ann]

And many of those who decide to get a performance degree end up with a spouse who brings home the bacon while they gig and have a teaching studio. I have known several male horn players in that scenario, married usually to doctors. I don't think it is a bad thing though for kids to grow up with a daddy at home.

[bloke]

"Someone I know" is in one of the "big" American orchestras.
Without him squeezing in a much teaching as he can manage, his wife cleaning houses and (both of them) working online at the successful musical instrument business that they started (actually, via the wife taking out a "student loan" - which she didn't need for school), their life would be sorta bleak - compared to how it is...

...and their daughter (a ninth grader who is playing horn plenty well enough to play professional gigs, but - obviously - can't drive) is getting "the bug". They're tiptoeing through this - while working to get their daughter "over" it.

Unlike what we were able to do, they've told all of their children that they won't be able to pay any percentage of any of their college tuition, if any/all of them decide to go to college.

swami-bloke prediction:
VERY soon, all American orchestras will be 80%-90% pops, will feature reduced orchestration, and will be per service, and with conservatory tuition rates continuing to skyrocket.

[russiantuba]

"Someone I know" is in one of the "big" American orchestras.
Without him squeezing in a much teaching as he can manage, his wife cleaning houses and (both of them) working online at the successful musical instrument business that they started (actually, via the wife taking out a "student loan" - which she didn't need for school), their life would be sorta bleak - compared to how it is...

...and their daughter (a ninth grader who is playing horn plenty well enough to play professional gigs, but - obviously - can't drive) is getting "the bug". They're tiptoeing through this - while working to get their daughter "over" it.

Unlike what we were able to do, they've told all of their children that they won't be able to pay any percentage of any of their college tuition, if any/all of them decide to go to college.

swami-bloke prediction:
VERY soon, all American orchestras will be 80%-90% pops, will feature reduced orchestration, and will be per service, and with conservatory tuition rates continuing to skyrocket.

Just have their daughter audition at Curtis and Colburn. Free tuition!

[bloke]

"Someone I know" is in one of the "big" American orchestras.
Without him squeezing in a much teaching as he can manage, his wife cleaning houses and (both of them) working online at the successful musical instrument business that they started (actually, via the wife taking out a "student loan" - which she didn't need for school), their life would be sorta bleak - compared to how it is...

...and their daughter (a ninth grader who is playing horn plenty well enough to play professional gigs, but - obviously - can't drive) is getting "the bug". They're tiptoeing through this - while working to get their daughter "over" it.

Unlike what we were able to do, they've told all of their children that they won't be able to pay any percentage of any of their college tuition, if any/all of them decide to go to college.

swami-bloke prediction:
VERY soon, all American orchestras will be 80%-90% pops, will feature reduced orchestration, and will be per service, and with conservatory tuition rates continuing to skyrocket.

Just have their daughter audition at Curtis and Colburn. Free tuition!

She's over-the-top smart (excels and is a year-or-two ahead in all subjects).
She doesn't need to spend her life messing around with a bunch of weirdos, making no money, and being treated as if someone pushing a mop.

[tokuno]

. . . Unlike what we were able to do, they've told all of their children that they won't be able to pay any percentage of any of their college tuition, if any/all of them decide to go to college. . .

. . . She's over-the-top smart (excels and is a year-or-two ahead in all subjects).
She doesn't need to spend her life messing around with a bunch of weirdos, making no money, and being treated as if someone pushing a mop. . .

Our oldest daughter graduated with a 4+ gpa & numerous AP credits from a school that was ranked the #1 best college prep public high school in California (emphasis in STEM, but very strong music program, too).
Recognizing the table-stakes/ante perception by many (people, employers) of a college degree but skeptical of the cost, she enlisted as a Marine musician and easily earned her undergraduate degree with minimal out-of-pocket expense (military's "tuition assistance" program) during her single enlistment, while banking most of her pay and gaining fabulous life/adulting experience.
4 years after high school she had her business/finance degree, a job in tech, a house, a husband, and a very healthy 401K. Now in her 6th year post-high-school, she's completing her MBA, and is exploring business opportunities.

i.e. assuming one wants/needs a college education & degree as a launchpad instead of an anchor, there are ways to earn it without incurring crippling debt.

[russiantuba]

[/quote]

She's over-the-top smart (excels and is a year-or-two ahead in all subjects).
She doesn't need to spend her life messing around with a bunch of weirdos, making no money, and being treated as if someone pushing a mop.
[/quote]

One of my colleges has a new audio engineering/recording program. I am really pushing that on potential students, including music education. As I play gigs, especially the ones outdoor that pay, I guarantee the audio engineers are getting paid way more, and these guys drive nicer vehicles and seem to be always busy doing events every night.

[bloke]

Curiously, that same granddaughter has already taught herself to be an incredible audio engineer without any instruction from her dad (who also taught himself to be one back during the top down orchestrated worldwide economic shutdown).

Okay, admittedly their expertise is limited to studio recording and not to amplification of live performances.

To me, it seems apparent that amplification of a symphony orchestra and balancing it with a singer or with a rock band fronting the orchestra (or something along those lines) must be very difficult, because few individuals or companies that do this seem to be very good at it. Obviously, the venues in which this is done can present epic challenges as well.

me...??
My personal audio engineering skills ceased to advance shortly after DAT technology entered the world. I toyed with DAT for a bit and then realized that the technology was soon going to outrun my ability to devote time to mastering it.